To think PND is not a women's private problem but a political and social one as well

[roseability]

Before the curtain rises on this motherhood performance, you read, study, meditate, share and carefully learn the script. You choose birth underwater or in darkness, a gentle birth breathing the baby out like a holy rite. Then you hold him, draw him to your breast, and of course your baby never leaves you, is in skin-to-skin contact and assured of your love.

You will breastfeed two or three years, do the task properly, create a new radiant creature, a work of art and love and patience.

In all your ways you are consistent, tender, reasonable, liberal, you never say no, are never rejecting, offer all that is fair and sweet.

Then what are these ugly feelings like the slug on the lettuce, the slimy trail of ego, the dog-shit suddenly underneath? Why is your gut twisted, hot anger scalding, thick rage rising like scum on boiling jam, sobs choking like vomit? Why do you want to run away, escape from your child or to wring his neck?

You are grateful to have a partner, home, lilac flowering by the window. Everything's all set for the future. But this hate curdles kindness, snuffs all hope. The pastoral idyll, making babies who shine with trust and a high IQ, your lovely Eden with wing sprouting cherubs in a clean new world is shattered

And you have smashed it. Guilt wraps round like a tired old coat, the sky turns black. And women say, each one in their own prison, her own isolation and despair, "it must all be my fault. I should never have had a child.I don't deserve one...why can't I be happy like other women?"

Sheila Kitzinger

Just read this in her book. Some very interesting issues I thought.

Oh my god! She could have been writing about me!!

PND gets a paragraph in the baby book your HV gives you and you skim over it thinking, that will never happen to me!! Because they tell you that, they tell you its extremely rare - Yeah well, bullshit to that!! Maybe MAYBE i wouldn't still be struggling three years on if my PND had been picked up at the appropriate time and i had timely treatment. But as it stands im sill on medication, still having counselling and still feel like a second rate mother!

Thankyou for posting that, made me angry - but in a positive way!

I am so sorry you are still struggling. I just hate this guilt that a lot of mothers seem to feel. I too have suffered PND and know how awful it can be. I just read this and thought I had to share it and this thread gets most attention I think!

Doesn't mean people necessarily have to agree with it but I definately recognise some of the feelings.

I definately agree with Kitzinger that PND is a social issue.

It is, and i think it is elevated because of the trends towards having to be an uber mummy lately! I was constantly comparing myself to other mums but you know what, im actually quite a good mummy!

I'm getting better thanks, but would have probably saved a lot of heartache if my HV hadn't have done the edinburgh test on me, told me i was clinically depressed and would call on me later in the week to see how i was getting on - I have never seen her since. Ended up breaking down to another HV who i liked a YEAR later!!

That is shocking, no wonder you are angry. I have learnt that no one knows what goes on behind closed doors. Yes some mummys do seem to sail through, neither up nor down. But a lot of us don't.

I remember her sitting in my messy house (ive always had a messy house - im happy with that messy cow i am!) telling me how its really hard to be a mummy and that i should make my life easier by having cooking afternoons and then getting stuff out of the freezer and cooking them, you know, stuff like beef burgeinion (however you spell it) and things like that . I felt like saying to her NO - it is hard to be a mummy who's father is dying and wont meet his grandchild because he is too fucked up by alzheimers to know who anyone is. Who has gallstones and has to have her baby handed to her to BF because she is in fucking agony alot of the time. Who has constant panic attacks and thinks she is dying all the time. Who loves her baby so much that she doesn';t want anyone else to even so much as look at her! Who on top of all of this is trying to write up a PhD with the deadline looming!! She just kept going on about how i shouldnt worry about the state of the house (I wasn't) and how cooking in advance would change everything!!! I think she has retired now - thank god! She just kept saying to me _oh you poor thing!! I didn't need sympathy i needed fucking medication!

Rant over

Rant allowed! A poor HV indeed. No wonder you struggled, with all those issues to deal with as well as being a new mum. Some HVs just don't fulfil the role they should be. They are in a prime position to listen, understand and help. They should be at the forefront of trying to tackle this problem. They should all have counselling skills for starters. Absolutely not applying this to all HVs. I know there are a lot of fab ones too.

Sheila Kitzinger is a blessing.

Have you read Birth Crisis? ( Its more geared towards psychological trauma following birth)

I love her work. She should have her own seat at Number 10

I think that she was of the old school where you just struggle onwards. I would have had PND just the same but at least DP and I would have had a handle on what was going on.

Thankfully he stuck by me and we are on the mend. I now watch my friends with new babies like a hawk, so paranoid am i that they might end up with the same problems.

I might read that you know - i felt traumatised by DDs birth, even though it was a "normal" birth.

I think there definately needs to be more done for new mums in making PND something to be recognised and not just acknowledged and then brushed under the carpet.

Amazing, amazing quote.

her website here. V good

Society, at the moment, has this idealised vision of Motherhood and that becoming a mum is the only way to feel truly fulfilled. Which is, of course, bullshit.

Motherhood is sold to women as some blissful lifestyle option instead of the hard, often monotonous, drudgery that it really is.

I felt ashamed to have PND (still do 8 yrs later) as I used to think "why can't I be happy, every other mother on the planet is?". We are lead to believe that PND is rare. After being with MN for 3 years I know that it is bloody common.

good point TheCrackFox

I think all new mothers suffer pnd to a greater or lesser extent.

I didn't really feel depressed by motherhood until I had a 4 year old and a 2 year old! I found it very difficult to cope at times. I'd still say that was pnd.

Brilliant quote. I had very severe PND, but I am glad to be coming out of it now. My son is nearly 2 and a half. PND had a huge detrimental effect on my life, affecting every aspect, including me giving up teaching.
There needs to be a lot more support out there for women.

Oh ,my god, I found this link when searching in vane for anything on delayed PND, my dd is two years old next month and I, like LucyEllensMummy, was told I had borderline PND a year ago by HV, she then left the practice and it's like there was nothing noted in my notes as the next HV made no mention, so I just got on with life, giving myself a good talking to as and when required (I'm stubborn and refuse to admit defeat). However, I'm not winning this fight and I'm getting more and more agitated with my darling husband and beautiful daughter, why can't I cope? why do I feel pressure to be the perfect mummy? why do I think I'm failing? why do I always cry, especially when she's crying - she's teething again, the final back four and we're all miserable ..... where do I go next, do I admit what's going on and ask for help (I think that's what I'm doing now?) - sorry, rambling rant

The pressure to be the perfect mummy is a big factor I think. Where does this pressure come from?

don't you look around you and see everyone "coping"?, no-one really talks anymore, the extended familiy unit doesn't exist these days so you don't get the advice, or support we all really need. I suppose I put too much pressure on myself, I've gone from business-woman to mummy - by choice, so I'm lucky, I don't work now..but I think it's really hard to be a mummy to an active toddler - 24hrs a day - I love it, but it's hard - no-one wants to listen to you complaining (especially working mums) so I suppose I'm just conditioned to get on with things,does this makes sense?

annabelles mummy, i was in exactly the same situation as you - it was overlooked, and things got really bad for me and my DP. I was almost psychotic actually. I did stuff i could never admit to anyone but thankfully not to dd. Its frightening. I got help partly due to mumsnet and a lovely nurse at the walk in clinic at our health centre - she said the words i needed to hear "my love, you are not well" I could not stop crying with the relief - my DD was two months from two! It was like i was acting out this scenario of the perfect family, only it wasn't perfect, it was far from perfect and i hated DP for it. I now know i never want to be perfect {grin]. But there i was pushing around my Bugaboo (i had to have the best of everything, even though we couldnt afford it, because that proved I was happy ), smiling to the world and dying inside. After i spoke to the nurse she made me an appointment to see my doctor - a lady doctor of my age with similar age DD. She offered me Anti depressants, i resisted of course and said that no, i will see how i go - within a week i was back begging for the pills. I believe they saved my life - they most certainly saved my marriage. I am still on the ADs just over 18m later, but i am actually one of the ones who have been on them longer than average. They are also to treat anxiety and this is something i have always struggled with but not realised it.

So, where do you go for help? Your GP is where, and you don't leave until you are booked onto a course of proper counselling, preferably via the local mental health team. They might tell you it is not available in your area - don't listen, if you make enough fuss, its available. Things got much better for me immediately, im not over it, i have a way to go, but i can see a future for me now and i think that i deserve to be happy and that i will be happy, some day soon

Most GPs are sympathetic, don't be fobbed off simply with ADs insist on the counselling. Have you raised this issue with your partner? Its much easier once they know that you are not a bitch, just unwell.

One of the things that has helped me is realising that admitting that being a parent is bloody tough and hard work and that sometimes you can't wait until bedtime does not mean you are a bad mother, it means you are probably a better than average mother who actually gives a shit and puts her all into it and its hard bloody hard. That has nothing to do with PND, its the facts of parenthood - once you get past the small talk at M&T you realise that actually you are not alone in your frustrations. I love my daughter with every ounce of my being, but there are times when i resent not being able to be the old me. I was finishing my PhD when i had DD - how i ever finished it in the mist of PND (notice there is not alot of difference in those initials!!) i will never know, but i went from being intellectually challenged every day to actually being bored. Its OK to admit being bored as a SAHM, any SAHM who doesnt admit to boredom is lying. Its worth it, just the same as the challenges you face at work - i just happpen to think that as a mum the rewards are much better .

Do ask for help, you'll be surprised, so many people go through this, i have my suspicions about my GP actually, just some of the little things she says, i think - hmmm, you've been here haven't you.

Wow, thank you, it helps knowing there's someone out there, I thought I was just being over-dramatic with myself, I thought PND was something that happened after birth .. not this far in (nearly 2 years!), or maybe it's just taken me this long to admit it - thank you LucyEllensMummy, thank you for being there at this time of night! I'll be camping out at the Doctors Monday morning, now I have some strength to ask for help. And yes, the rewards are much better!

LucyEllen - your posts are very touching and so true. The boredom, occasional longing for one's old self etc. It is worth it. I have a terrible relationship with toxic, abusive parents and strive to give my DS better. But maybe by facing up to these feelings and dealing with them through counselling, ADs etc we are just trying to be good (but not oerfect) mothers

Annabelle- although I am no longer on medication and believe I am over my PND (DS is 3) I still have spells of feeling inadequate and waking up with that 'here we go again' feeling. But now I accept those feelings and am kinder to myself. It is okay to feel like this and I help myself by whatever means e.g. leave the housework that day, phone people, break some parenting rules and let my DS watch a bit more TV, treat myself to a bath or a new hairstyle. But most importantly tell myself it is okay to not be perfect!

I think there needs to be more support and more recognission of pnd.

But I also think that it's something where it can be hard to find middle ground, because while many women do suffer from pnd, many women do not. So there needs to be a fine balance between acknowledging those women who are suffering, but at the same time being careful not to scare all women into thinking they will suffer from pnd.

I totally agree with everything that's been written on this thread, I had the symptoms of PND, had psychotic experiences, chronic insmnia, developed OCD and was plagues by suicidal thoughts but no one beleived me. The Hv aknowledged I was "anxious" I had ante-natal depression too, the obstetrician said "I didn't look depressed" and none of the other uptight uber yummy mummy perfectionists round here aknowledged any problems let alone invited you to confide in them about yours.

So much for this amazing support network of like minded Mums you're supposed to encounter once you've had a baby, it's a load of tripe, everyone, including me is desperately trying to be perfect don't let the goddamn veneer crack whatever you do.

I'm quite a senior mental health professional and a lecturer things like that weren't supposed to happen to me, the system I worked within was more than unsupportive it was alienating.

I work as a therapist now in child mental health, my main area of interest currently is attachment and infant mental health, ie the mental health of the mothers!! I've considered doing my hv training to specilise in PND. Too many women have brought their children with behavioural problems to see me who've had horrible experiences and no support, I'm the first person they've told because "they just got on with it", it's heartbreaking.

It's definitely a social and political issue and one that needs addressing as a priority.