to think my husband is useless?

[soon2befamilyof4]

Seriously. I have been ill and have asked him to do a couple of things for me.

He bathed DD for me earlier, in the hope I could get 20 mins to myself. No. I keep getting called "can you get her towel from upstairs" "can you get her milk ready?" "can you help me with x, y z".

I asked him to make me a sandwich for tea. He got the butter out, couldn't spread it (it is easy, spreadable tub stuff). Made a hole in the bread, Got annoyed and started shouting. Moaned about how useless it is. So I asked him to bring it in to me and I would do it myself. He brought it all in but without the bread and had a new loaf. When I asked him he said the other bread was too battered to use so he had to throw it away . Did it myself with no problems.

He doesn't do much housework, if he does anything, I have to nag him and he usually does a crap job and I have to re-do it after.

He doesn't do any DIY

Can't cook ("helped" cook the other night and gave me food poisoning - I think).

I know it sounds horrible and I love him to bits but just get so frustrated!! It is like having another child!?!

I'd say "just click OK"

If only husbands and wives had a "just click OK" button...

Very good point, though. People are not "crap" at something just because they haven't had as much practice. Asking for help should not be taken as a sign of weakness or incompetence.

VictorianSqualor - I am not saying that it is ok for anyone's partner to unilaterally exempt himself / herself from domestic chores - I firmly believe the opposite. I suppose I am just saying that the model that kids-and-mums-wait-on-dads used to be standard, as opposed to the newer model of all-parents-wait-on-kids which is sometimes suggested (I know you did not suggest this, you specifically said the opposite and that everyone should help).

I agree that adverts about crap men etc are annoying and demeaning to everyone; they insult all the competent men and legitimise crap behaviour in the others.

BUT it is NOT up to women to make men do it. I can see why it is better for certain individual women to take charge in this way than carry on with men who do nothing, but it is not women's intrinsic responsibility to "train" the men.

When I am at work, I am paid a salary that recognises that the people who report to me are less experienced than me and part of my job is to invest time and effort in helping them do their jobs and acquire more skills. (One of the things you have to do when you are managing people is NOT take jobs away because it is easier to do them yourself.) This is why I am paid more than if I did not have a team - it takes effort and skill to manage people. I don't want to have to do this at home, I want to live with an equal.

Isn't it possible for people to be "equals" in "managing" one another mutually?

If one person knows how to work the iron, the hoover, the washing-machine and the cooker, and the other knows more about how to work the lawnmower, the car, the computer and the hedge-trimmer, can't you educate each other?

I've a friend who works in a very high-powered job and has recently started working for a powerful person as some sort of personal aide. The powerful person (a woman, let's call her A) appears to need constant looking after, and another equally powerful person (in a similar role, and another woman, we'll call her S) gives the impression of not needing help and of being able to look after herself.

The result is that A turns up witha big entourage and has people running around after her, worrying about her and trying to anticipate her requirements. S turns up on her own and could be considered to look less important.

What was my point? What was my point? I think it was that if you give the impression of needing to be looked after you end up being looked after whereas appearing self-sufficient could be considered a disadvantage in this instance. And it's not just men who are able to project these things.

UnquietDad on Tue 17-Feb-09 15:01:55

good point re asking for help and incompetence

unquietdad - I wouldn't call that managing (tho you could of course if you wanted to). If I know I won't manage to do something that needs 4 hands or skills I don't have, I will ask DP to help me and maybe tell me anything that can help me in future. He would do the same.

But what I would not feel so chilled about is me actually having to take overall responsibility for knowing what the subtasks are in The Domestic Project, allocating them, and therefore implicitly taking supreme responsibility for stepping in when things don't go according to plan.

At work, I will dish out subtasks, pander to the people who are getting them in whatever ways they need to feel comfortable about them, offer them whatever support they need (or "need") in recognition of their lesser experience, and if something happens (they get sick, their granny dies, the whole thing takes a million times longer, etc) I accept that I will be landed with doing what they don't manage. At home, we all take tasks on and keep doing them till they are done. Don't we?

Vezzie: "actually having to take overall responsibility for knowing what the subtasks are in The Domestic Project, allocating them, and therefore implicitly taking supreme responsibility for stepping in when things don't go according to plan. "

Another good point - the responsibility is the burden, you're right.

This is not what all men (or women) are like.

There is almost nothing that I can do around the home that DH can't also do (sometimes better - generally more reliably - only exception is cleaning bathrooms which makes him go all anxious) and many things he can do that I can't (e.g. fixing computers - although just jabbing buttons usually works quite well for most things ime). I haven't had to train him/manage him, although am obviously grateful to his MIL who must have done something to bring this out in him, for the rest he is a very thoughtful, intelligent person. I do tell him how well he compares to some other DHs out there, especially drawing his attention to some of the choicer examples on MN!

LOL at The Domestic Project. Scary thought!

But if a man has grown up in this stereotypical 1950's housewife type life and expects to live a life like this then is it his fault if he thinks this is the way things are and his wife does not tell him otherwise?
Of course not, he can't read minds.
Men are programmed as boys just as women are programmed as girls and often what we see we mirror when we become adults, unless someone challenges us then we don't always see things as wrong.
As I said, some women are completely happy to be subservient to their partners, so it is a matter of personal preference, if your personal preference is that your partner does do equal share then you have to let him know that, rather than reinforcing how 'useless' he is by doing it all for him.

I sometimes think my dh is lazy and useless, he does sweet FA round the house apart from putting his clothes in the wash basket and making a cuppa every now and then. He does feed DS at weekends and puts him to bed a couple of nights a week. I do let him get away with it though and I do feel like he wouldn't do it properly so it is my own fault I guess. If he did do some stuff and he didn't do it as thoroughly as me and I told him this it causes huge rows.
How do others deal with this, do you:

1. let him do it and do a crap job and keep your gob shut and get over it. 2)let him do it, tell him he's done it wrong and then a huge barney ensues. 3)do it yourself and thus complain about it on MN. Tricky one.

at 'overall responsibility for knowing what the subtasks are in The Domestic Project' - it is a bit like that!

Although, DH is currently doing the shredding - a job which I hate and therefore ignore - entirely off his own bat, so musn't grumble.

I apply the same technique that they advise for sex stuff e.g 'oh that's good but I like it even better when you do it THIS way'

Or, pretend I can't hear the pleas for the towel, vest, sleeping bag etc etc.

Well, some women do everything for their men because they want to. they enjoy it. Which is fine for me.

But many women do everything for the DH and DC because they want to feel needed. The feeling that if they go away for a day, the DH and DC will starve theirselves is giving them some sort of power. 'they are useless without me.., they ll not survive' sort of thing.
And uncosiously they dont 'allow' them to take care of theirselves and home so that they keep this power and are needed.

I love this tread!

DH is pretty much the same; but very capable of being super tidy and looking after his ?own? things? He is a great father and generally a wonderful h.

The trouble with him is; he?ll do a job but leave it half done. Wash up but leave all the cutlery in the bowl, not eating when I?m not there to cook, putting every thing laying around into the wash box without checking it ? lazy stuff.

Its basic take you for granted stuff. Pure and simple. Getting away with it is where the problem comes from. H can be an arsehole of gargantuan proportions when it comes to the small things that make such a difference i.e. remembering that taking a towel to the bathroom is essential to getting the job done properly?

We are back on an even keel at the moment, after another chat? before he returns to taking me for granted (I have little doubt he will). But I make the rod for my own back by not being consistent, doing things when I know I should ask him to help. Really, is he to know that we need potatoes if I don?t tell him and I do all the cooking?? If he cooks, he shops the end. Is he to know that dd?s sheets need changing unless I tell him? He knows when he?s just being lazy (half job) so, I get him to finish what he?s started. No harm in that eh?

Yes, he sounds useless.

Our local school runs men only cookery classes - could you look into this and send him on one?

Wigglesworth
The answer is a) let him do it and keep your gob shut

Not that I need to do that with DH as he is generally more conciencious about how he does things in the house.

I am better at some things, like cooking and baking. He is better at ironing and hoovering. Takes ages because he is so thorough and does not do household chores often because I am a SAHM, but he can if he has to.

And he NEVER baths the DC for me or does the ironing for me. He does the work. For the family, for himself. Not for me.

Now, if washing machines had remote controls...

just wanted to add - let's please bring up our sons (and daughters) to pick up after themselves and help with the family chores.

It really does make a difference if a boy (or girl) has grown up helping with the laundry, washing up, etc.

Someone asked if my Dh had been bought up in a household where his father did nothing around the house. The answer to that is yes. His mum was very traditionalist about domestic chores and her Dh was never expected to do any chores at all. At one time she was working fulltime and her Dh was at home and he still did no housework. Strangely this tradition didn't pass down to Dh's sister who is even worse than my Dh.
I completely agree that children should be expected to do their bit and mine do although I admit it's become a bit more of a challenge since they hit their teenage years!!! They are expected to keep their rooms tidy, load the dishwasher, put their laundry in the laundry basket (it doesn't get washed if they don't)and will all run errands if asked. Dh does none of this. He did used to do the more masculine jobs (sorry for the stereotype but you know what I mean!)but after a serious illness 3 years ago he no longer does these either even though he is now recovered. We have had endless "discussions" on the subject and TBH I've given up.