To disagree with small children recieving communion or being confirmed

[Reallytired]

I go to a church of England church and recently it has started allowing children as young as five to take communion. The children in question have attended a set of classes for a term before doing so. They then had a special service (within the main family service), which wasn't actually a confirmation service, but very similar.

The priest asked a five year old boy what made him decide he was ready for communion. The little boy was speechless desperately shy. I doult he had any clue whatsoever what the sacrement of communion is. Yes, Jesus may have welcomed little children, but were there any small boys at the last supper?

What annoyed me was that my son was asked whether he wanted to prepare for communion by the priest when the priest damm well knows my views on the subject. I feel like changing church.

I think its better to wait until people have some maturity and life experience before taking the sacrement of holy communion. I have told my son that he will have to wait until he is sixteen years old to get confirmed. (Ie. when he is an age that he can actually make a decision independently.)

HoochieMomma, do you fully understand the concepts? I don't... there's a lot I don't understand about my faith.

piscesmoon - just interested - did you make use the traditional liturgy for your child's baptism?

IIRC, the Parents and Godparents renounce evil and declare faith on behalf of the child. Because if the parents have faith, then God, in his mercy, extends his Grace to the baby as well. Thats the thinking behind it.

The tradition liturgy has a Thanksgiving/Dedication service as well, which requires no such promises/commitments by the parents. TBH we found it pretty wishy washy, and added a lot from the Baptism liturgy, as well as promises by the Godparents to pray for and mentor our children, and a declaration by DH and I of our own personal faith, and of our intention to bring up the DC to know God (as far as its possible). We wanted something that was pretty much a Baptism, but withut the water

Hoochie - as I wrote below, Christains believe that God has extended his grace to anyone who has faith in Jesus, and to the children of those believers, until such time as the children can understand themselves. So I guess thats the concept as far as Christians are concerned. I guess its also explains something about the childs upbringing/culture and is useful for 'classification' and cultural sensitivity at schools etc?

I don't think you have to understand everything, eg the whole Bible to have faith. Obviously you need to convinced of the reliability of the Bible, and in faith you can accept the rest, because you see that the bits you do understand are real and convincing.

I am sceptical about the concept of a orginal sin. I think my bump is without sin at the moment, even though it is unintentionally giving me hell with sciatica.

I don't believe that hindu babies/ bumps will burn in hell. (Or even necesssarily adults who have never had the chance to learn about Jesus.)

I have no idea what will happen when Jesus returns at the end of time. However I have confidence and trust God that whatever happens will be fair.

Incidently my husband is not even baptised. He regularly goes to church, but does not feel quite ready for confirmation. I suspect tthat eventually he will choose to get confirmed, but there is no rush.

Hoochie - if it helps, I've never considered my DS to be "a Christian child". He's a child of Christian parents. (Well, teen now, so even less defined by what his parents believe!). When we had him baptised we were saying that we planned to raise him within the context of our faith, and to help him to understand that faith.

I think a child's (or adult's) ability to understand the concepts is a very gradual and patchy thing, and different people will want to make a commitment (or decide not to) at different ages and stages.

I do think DS understood enough about what we were doing in church to take communion at age 3 (he had been to church every week since I could face sitting on a pew again), but I don't think he knew enough at 7, or 10, or 13 to make a committment to it for himself, and he still doesn't/hasn't. Personally, I was confirmed in my 20s, after drifting away from the church then coming back to it.

The difference between "having faith" and "understanding the concepts" is a tricky one, and that's why I raised the issue about learning difficulties earlier. Many people who would not be able to memorise complex passages or explain the concepts do have faith in God and choose to follow a religion. And (most?) religions are happy to accept them on those terms without expecting them to demonstrate their "understanding" in a way which is not appropriate to them.

That's one of the reasons why many Christian denominations have recently (last 20 years or so anyway) been looking again at what they expect of people coming for confirmation or admission to communion. Often the requirements have been more about church discipline than genuine theology.

I do agree with the idea that confirmation is a serious personal commitment and therefore a young person should understand the vow they are about to take but in terms of communion my vicar describes it as a family at a dining table - you would not exclude the youngest members even though their 'table manners' might not always be the best. Hopefully by allowing them to join in, they will learn by example and fellowship.
The family is a great example actually: loving, inclusive but not always perfect.

'piscesmoon - just interested - did you make use the traditional liturgy for your child's baptism? '

It is a long time ago now so I am not sure without looking. It was standard C of E part of morning service. I am pretty sure that it promises that you intend to have them confirmed-something that I am quite happy about, as long as it is their free choice.

I am very uncomfortable about young children making a commitment, I think at a young age it has more to do with the beliefs of the parent and if the DC had atheist parents they would too. I think that full membership of the church should only come when they are able to separate their views from their parent's views. My father signed the pledge at 8 yrs because he had very strict methodist parents-it put him off any religion for years which is why he was 50 before he got confirmed.
I once heard a 'born again'Christian talk to children and say that his daughter 'gave herself to Jesus' aged 3 yrs. It made me a cringe (especially as the meaning was that the audience could do the same). You have to be old enough to understand.

reallytired - I do believe in original sin...my bump is a sinner - its a heart thing, not an 'action' thing. And being a Christian doesnt change my status as sinner -Its just that God is kind and gracious to those who trust him, not that I'm any better than anyone else. I'm not! Like I said though, its not an 'action' thing (thank goodness!)

FWIW, I suspect that all babies/little children too young to have faith are probably saved by God's grace too - although I don't think the Bibe is clear on that. I do think the Bible is clear that God is merciful, fair and just.

pisces - interesting that you thought 14 was too young - I was confirmed at 14 and was fine with that (not at all forced), and actually I could have been confirmed younger really. I guess it just shows wht an individual thing that is. Its just an (important and special) sign of whats in your heart anyway. My DH is not confirmed, and its not the slightest bother to me or him. God knows his heart.

I was confirmed at 10: to my mind then it was what you did to prove you were a big kid (CofE primary school, with a vicar who was very High Church: he even took confession). I didn't have any religious faith then and certainly don't now, but enjoyed a day of being made a fuss of, new dress, new necklace, special dinner etc.

I'm reading an interesting book at the moment, called "Autism and the God connection". I have learned so much about people who have professed a faith in God despite others (wrongly) calling them retarded. I realise this is not exactly the same thing as children not understanding, but it IS in a way to me because my son, aged 7, has Asperger's.