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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think that an NCT teacher running a NHS antenatal class is a bit of a conflict of interests

43 replies

SalBySea · 04/02/2009 20:22

I decided against signing up for NCT classes and opted for NHS classes instead. I had heard reports about NCT that made me decide that its not for me. I think its good that both are available, and was glad to be able to choose which one to sign up for (horses for courses and all that)

Turns out that the lady running my NHS antenatal class is also a NCT teacher. She lives up to every bad thing I heard about NCT. Is completely anti doctors and hospital births and only discusses the negatives of doctor intervention (without also telling us about situations when these interventions might actually be best)

Her language in relation to doctors is so negative. E.g. "some of the things they will try and do to you if you let them.."
and out dated:
"the hospital midwives trot in in their little hats and try to tell you whats best for you"

  • its a looong time since hospital MWs wore those little hats !
and just wrong - she implied that the only way you will be allowed to choose your birthing positions is if you have a home birth

Everyone in the class is planning a hospital birth. This woman wasnt able (or maybe unwilling) to answer any questions about non home births (eg someone asked at what stages epidurals were available and she wouldnt answer)

I know that some people find NCT classes brilliant, and that's great for them. But I thought I had the choice as to whether or not I wanted NCT style antenatal classes and I dont! I know that natural is best but if I need more help to get the baby out safely, I want to go into those proceedures feeling positively about them! This woman implies that interventions are always unnecessary and only have cons, no pros.

So am I being unreasonable to be annoyed that I turned up to a NON NCT antenatal class only to be given the NCT treatment?

OP posts:
JoandMax · 04/02/2009 20:27

I don't think you're wrong to be annoyed at the style of teaching, they should go over all scenarios so you're properly prepared. I would mention it to your midwife to express your concern you won't be fully informed as questions couldn't be answered.

But, I do feel the need to defend the NCT! I did their classes and my teacher was lovely, very impartial and gave us all the facts of every option including hospital births, pain relief, breast and bottle feeding etc.

I think you got a horrible lady but it is not reflective of the NCT as a whole, the support I had from my teacher was invaluable both pre and post baby and completely non judgmental.

vis · 04/02/2009 20:29

I agree with you, I had the same expereince from a NCT class. thankfully I had an unbiased NHS class option run by working midwives- more balanced.

I would write to calrify the tone and message given in this NHS class - copy in lead consultants in the hospital and also the lead Midwife - they will be interested to know how women and men are set up to have a poor expectation of real birth.

TotalChaos · 04/02/2009 20:30

YABU to object to her being a NCT teacher on the side. YANBU to object to her dogma and refusal to give information about the basics of hospital birth and analgesia.

Lulumama · 04/02/2009 20:32

regardless of her affiliation to the NCT or not, she sounds like a not very good teacher.

agree re midwives in hats.. unless she was trying to be 'funny'

i think it is not so much to do with NCT, but the fact she was not a good teacher, nor giving unbiased and relevant info

hester · 04/02/2009 20:33

I agree with the others. I don't see it as a conflict of interest for a NCT tutor to do NHS antenatal classes - and there are plenty of midwives who have a sideline as NCT tutors!

But you should be getting full, unbiased information - whether from the NCT or the NHS. It is not ok for either to 'take sides'; they should be giving you the information and support YOU need to make good choices about YOUR birth.

Complain!

staranise · 04/02/2009 20:33

YABU - your teacher sounds very unhelpful but she is the one at fault not the NCT as a whole. She is not representative of the organisation. I have three friends who are NCT teachers and have done work for them myself and have never known any of them be anti-hospital births or anti-doctors or midwives (indeed they all gave birth in hospital themselves).

The NCT is a charity that fights for the rights of pregnant women and new parents. It is not pro or against any particular type of birth. If you have a problem with your teacher (and it sounds like you are justified in this), you need to bring it up with her or her employer ie, the NHS - the fact that she also works for the NCT is irrelevant.

plummed · 04/02/2009 20:33

YANBU! I would complain to your midwife. And fancy the NHS hiring someone like that. Do you reckon they check any of them out?

My antenatal classes were done by a midwife from the midwife-led unit. So was a bit biased about the labour ward versus mw-led unit. But answered any questions she could. I booked into her unit, but after three days of labour I was only allowed into labour ward and had to be helped along. And if I hadn't had that helping hand my DD would not be here today! And neither would I, after nasty haemorrage (sp?).

So don't take too much in, natural may be best, but doctors have their uses!

StayFrosty · 04/02/2009 20:35

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

hester · 04/02/2009 20:36

Oh, and to add: my NCT classes gave us full information on epidural, caesareans etc, in a very nonjudgemental way.

Just as well - 8 out of 10 of us had emergency CS!

Original poster
SalBySea · 04/02/2009 20:40

I know it sounds like I am NCT bashing, but really, my issue is one about choice

I chose not to sign up for NCT, I chose the other route, but feel that that choice has been taken from me

I know that NCT works great for lots of people, but I decided that it wasnt for me (after checking out their website and speaking to people who've been to both)

OP posts:
edam · 04/02/2009 20:45

blimey, hester, must have made for some interesting stories at your coffee mornings!

Ante-natal teacher sounds very poor but it's the NHS that is employing her and should be making sure she's up to scratch. Sadly there are people who offer poor advice, both in the NHS and outside (as well as plenty of well-informed people who genuinely want to help new mothers, of course).

hester · 04/02/2009 20:50

I do understand, SalBySea, but the thing to remember is that with NHS antenatal classes you have no choice or control over the personal stance of whoever takes the class. Their quality is very variable, and often they're delivered by midwives who have been 'volunteered' and who may not be interested or skilled in this area. Some midwives are as doctrinaire and biased as some NCT tutors. There are plenty of NHS midwives who love NHS-bashing and undermining women's confidence in the medical route (honestly, I have experience of this).

So if you are going to complain, I really think the route to go is about the poor quality of the classes you got, rather than the origin of the tutor.

But good luck and let us know how you get on.

hester · 04/02/2009 20:52

edam - not only did we nearly all have sections, nearly everybody had an absolutely vile experience (central London, naturally!). Our first postnatal meeting was like hearing despatches back from a war zone...

SalBySea - if this is your first, please don't think that we were typical!

wobbegong · 04/02/2009 20:57

Just interested here that you automatically blame the fact that she is an NCT teacher, rather than that she is a crap teacher. Which would be the conclusion I would jump to.

Just sticking up for the NCT a bit, I guess. It doesn't have an anti-hospital bias, at least not round these parts. And it wouldn't be "national" policy; not in their mags etc. So I guess I'm saying I agree with Hester.

Original poster
SalBySea · 04/02/2009 20:59

oh well, at least I have a lovely MW and HV who are both very informative and non-judgemental so suppose I will just have to get all my information from them

I was quite looking forward to my antenatal classes so feel a bit deflated about it. Its too late now to change classes.

the plan I have discussed with my MW is home birth or X hospital. Am planning for both options with her support, if things are going fine and I'm happy to continue at home then I will but if not I want to go to hospital in a good frame of mind. I want to be well prepared for both because who knows how it'll go? I dont think I'll have failed if I end up not having the baby at home

I dont feel like I can even discuss my birth plan at my antenatal class as she is SO anti-hospital.

OP posts:
wobbegong · 04/02/2009 21:02

You don't have to go.

Count yourself lucky. They don't have NHS classes round here, and NCT ones are booked up miles in advance. And I never saw the same MW twice.

I got what I needed from a book/ yoga classes/ hospital tour.

Original poster
SalBySea · 04/02/2009 21:02

wobbegong its just that I looked into both and decided against NCT and now it is forced upon me. I do accept that plenty of people have positive NCT experiences, but they chose that route and I didnt, I signed up for what I thought was the alternative

OP posts:
Original poster
SalBySea · 04/02/2009 21:06

I think that even if she had been a bit less biased I'd still be miffed that I was having NCT teaching when I had deliberately decided against it

OP posts:
Original poster
SalBySea · 04/02/2009 21:10

"You don't have to go."

I know, but I wanted to go, was looking forward to it. its too late to find another one, this was the only one not booked up.

OP posts:
galaxymummy · 04/02/2009 21:11

That interesting SalbySea,
Do other people know if nct are used by nhs to deliver classes much?
I think if the quality of class is not up to scratch then there should be a complaints procedure or you could go to PALS, or perhaps positely assert your right to swap classes.
hth
galaxy

clemette · 04/02/2009 21:21

Many NCT teachers are midwives.
The NCT approach is about empowering parents to ask why things are happening. It is about informed choice. This is not anti-intervention, but anti-unnecessary intervention.
Many trusts are asking the NCT to deliver their classes because they can't spare the midwives to deliver the NHS ones.
It sounds like you just have a bad teacher - did she not ask the group what THEY wanted to know about...? It is a shame that it is perpetuating some negative myths about the NCT.

Original poster
SalBySea · 04/02/2009 21:27

Well according to her all interventions are unnecessary and we can and should chose not to have them, seemingly without consequence, cause apparently doctors and hospital midwives are just itching to "do things to you" that you dont need!

No, she didnt ask us what we wanted to know about. the only thing she asked us was if anyone was choosing a home birth and when everyone said they were planning either X or Y hospital, she went on to say how X hospital was "the friendly one", which is really helpful for anyone who ends up at Y eh!

Then she went on about the disadvantages of hospital births in general

OP posts:
morocco · 04/02/2009 21:29

our area will have nct teachers running the nhs classes although that isn't really how it works cos nct doesn't employ people full time and then find them jobs. the teachers are self employed (afaik) and so can work for the nct directly by running nct classes, run their own private classes 1:1's etc but not with nct branding, or work for the nhs, either under the nct umbrella or not. no conflict of interests.

Original poster
SalBySea · 04/02/2009 21:32

Oh and she still continued going on about home births even though no-one had said they would consider one

Every topic she talked about was from a home birth point of view

(I didnt own up to the fact I was considering one as I want my options kept open rather than being pressurised into exclusively planning just for a HB)

OP posts:
piscesmoon · 04/02/2009 21:32

The NCT must have changed then since I belonged. The NCT teachers were not anti hospitals or doctors etc. It was all about choice. There is no way that I would have a home birth, but I wasn't made to feel awkward.
I would agree with clemette's post and don't see a conflict of interests.