to think that an NCT teacher running a NHS antenatal class is a bit of a conflict of interests

[SalBySea]

I decided against signing up for NCT classes and opted for NHS classes instead. I had heard reports about NCT that made me decide that its not for me. I think its good that both are available, and was glad to be able to choose which one to sign up for (horses for courses and all that)

Turns out that the lady running my NHS antenatal class is also a NCT teacher. She lives up to every bad thing I heard about NCT. Is completely anti doctors and hospital births and only discusses the negatives of doctor intervention (without also telling us about situations when these interventions might actually be best)

Her language in relation to doctors is so negative. E.g. "some of the things they will try and do to you if you let them.."
and out dated:
"the hospital midwives trot in in their little hats and try to tell you whats best for you"

• its a looong time since hospital MWs wore those little hats !

and just wrong - she implied that the only way you will be allowed to choose your birthing positions is if you have a home birth

Everyone in the class is planning a hospital birth. This woman wasnt able (or maybe unwilling) to answer any questions about non home births (eg someone asked at what stages epidurals were available and she wouldnt answer)

I know that some people find NCT classes brilliant, and that's great for them. But I thought I had the choice as to whether or not I wanted NCT style antenatal classes and I dont! I know that natural is best but if I need more help to get the baby out safely, I want to go into those proceedures feeling positively about them! This woman implies that interventions are always unnecessary and only have cons, no pros.

So am I being unreasonable to be annoyed that I turned up to a NON NCT antenatal class only to be given the NCT treatment?

have you asked the other mums what they think of her classes? maybe some feedback to her or her bosses is in order.

I found NCT classes empowering and NHS classes poorly informed, just as biased as NCT and they terrified me about giving birth. I went to one NHS class, got pissed off that asking questions was basically discouraged, and stuck with the NCT.

Ideally I think parents should attend both, so that they can make up their own minds fully informed (I'd already informed myself of the medical side so knew what I was missing from the hosp).

"have you asked the other mums what they think of her classes? maybe some feedback to her or her bosses is in order."

No, but the general atmosphere was rather deflated, and when DH and I went for coffee afterwards we didn't at first see one of the other mums on front of us while we were having a bit of a rant, she turned around and gave us a knowing smile and a nod

Okay so it seems that its acceptable for a NCT teacher to also teach the NHS classes. I guess I kinda had the wrong impression, that NCT was an ALTERNATIVE to NHS classes that you could chose to do instead of or as well as NHS classes. But okay, I stand corrected

I have a gp appointment next week, I will raise my concerns about the irrelevance of her teaching to my birth plan when I see him

how about approaching her first, maybe after/before class, or speaking to someone at the hospital or your mw for an idea of who to give your feedback to? gp not likely to be 'in the loop' tbh

"Ideally I think parents should attend both"

what would be the point if they are both run by the same person?

My midwife (who was terrible) did our NHS classes. Someone asked a question about how to transport a baby home from hospital if they didn't have a car. The midwife replied saying that she really didn't know as she didn't know anyone who didn't have a car! From what I recall she concentrated her time on saying we should be a Stokke cot (retailing at the time in John Lewis at about £500!).

When I actually had my ds I discovered that these classes were about as much use a chocolate teapot. I never made my NCT classes as ds arrived the week before they were due to start!

Sal, presumably the idea of having an NCT person run the NHS course is just that - so that parents can ideally be presented with both sides of the story? If this is the plan behind your hospital course they should be applauded for being forward-thinking. If you feel it's not working then perhaps you should give the teacher some constructive feedback and also write to the hospital.

NCT deliver NHS classes here (Cheshire). I went to NCT though, and our NCT teacher was great, not at all judgemental and very informative. And I think 1/2 of our group ended up with epidurals or C-sections...

You are very lucky to have a choice. Where I live the NHS provision is patchy and very depends upon where you live. In my area there are no NHS classes due to funding issues and the NCT classes are fully booked.

I don't understand why you are blaming the NCT. My experience of the NCT has been very positive. They were very helpful to me when I needed breastfeeding support after my emergency c-section. I didn't experience any negativity around that at all, and the refresher ante-natal NCT class I've booked covers c-sections.

write the Trust and tell them that the teacher is not addressing the needs of you in particular and others in the class.

that is the only way things will change.

It is good that you already have the initiative to expect a certain level of care, you will need that later, when dealing with the NHS, IME that is.

FWIW, I find your OP very affected which makes me doubt the sincerity of some of what you wrote but then maybe that is just me being cynical?

I agree with all the posts about the teacher being at fault and not listening to the needs of the parents attending. However did some of this reaction come from your disappointment on finding that she was 'NCT' affect your judgement in anyway?

Some NHS classes are run by midwives, some by NCT teachers and some by midwives who have trained as NCT teachers. Classes are very dependant on the skills of the teacher, much like any other form of education.( I myself had one very bad maths teacher in high school and one excellent teacher and as for university lecturers - well some could not teach at all!)

I really can't understand why the NHS would employ an antenatal teacher who is anti hospital. That's weird. I'm sure if her employers knew she was anti hospital, they wouldn't employ her.

I know the NCT is being anti unnecessary intervention and perhaps there are some teachers out there who don't give a balanced perspective but the NCT is ultimately pro choice and pro information rather than anti hospital.

Why don't you ask your teacher to cover when interventions might be necessary? She can't deny that interventions sometimes are necessary after all.

You need to know the pros and cons of pain relief for example. Did she go into that at all?

How ridiculous, I'm a big fan of natural birth but I know interventions are required sometimes (just look at the maternal death rate before hospitals) and if you want pain relief I'm not about to try and convince you otherwise

Our NCT classes were brilliant, our teacher went through everything on a hospital basis (I was the only one planning a home birth) and went through each and every intervention, explaining why it might be needed, and what would happen if we had it. The class was really focused on learning about the birth process and how to gain a little bit of control back (ie changing positions etc like you said)

Conversely our NHS classes were taken by a midwife I had seen before and didn't like (and some of my friends had seen her too and thought she wasn't very good either) - which possibly coloured my experience of them, but there were about 25-30 couples in a hot, stuffy, echoey room, she whispered the whole thing and basically her advice was "You should just do exactly as the doctor says" and when people asked questions about things like changing positions and one lady asked if the screen could be lowered during an elective caeserean, her attitude seemed to be why would you want to do that? Rather than answering the question.

I thought the NHS classes were awful and didn't bother going to the second one, on baby care. So I think it really depends on who is taking the class.

Even though I am a natural birth advocate I would be pretty annoyed to get the NCT teacher you described if I had paid for the course.

I think you should thank your lucky stars that you have free nhs ante natal classes. When I had my first child there was nothing in our area unless you paid.

I did nct classes and our teacher was good, even if I might disagree with her to think of contractions as being like a flower opening.

I would like to see a voucher system which you could cash to pay for the type of class that fits your life style. Ie. mums who need childcare could have classes at the weekend when their partner could look after the children. Or there could be classes where fathers could attend.

For exmaple I was offered an NHS refresher class for second time mums which was on between 2 and 3pm five miles away. There was no creche and how on earth did they think a SAHM would manage the school run?

YABU unreasonable to complain about her being an NCT teacher, but YANBU unreasonable to expect a balanced and well-informed class from someone teaching an NHS class.

What do you need ante-natal classes for anyway, isn't Mumsnet good enough ;)

I work for the NCT and if one of the parents here had an experience like SalBySea I would encourage them to complain to the NCT. The teacher wasn't addressing your needs. She perhaps needs a bit of retraining.

Round here (Essex) the NHS has no funding for antenatal classes. One of our NCT teachers gives her time free of charge so that an NHS class can take place.

I don't think this is indicative of the NCT as a whole. The teachers I work with and that I was taught by are excellent. But, as with every profession, some are better than others. If the NCT are not made aware of poor teaching they can't do anything about it.

Dear Really tired,
I think your idea of a voucher system is brilliant this would mean that women had choice when and where to go meets all agendas perhaps you should have a word with your pct health authority and see if they would go for it or write to chair of your local maternity committee.

Reallytired has obviously been advising the government

From April 2009, you can claim a one-off, tax-free payment from HMRC if you're a mum-to-be who's at least 25 weeks pregnant. The payment is called 'Health in Pregnancy Grant' and is to help you prepare for the birth of your baby.