to think adopting (hypothetical) dc2 is a better idea than the conventional method?

[svalbardy]

with a 2 month old dd, the pressure is already on for planning dc2. OK, i'm hardly likely to be wanting to do all this again just at the moment, but actually I think there are WAY TOO MANY people on the planet and we should stop at one child. I have always thought this.

If dd needs a sibling then we can start planning to adopt, the sooner the better.

However this is regarded as TOTAL anathema by dh, and by his and my family.

Why?

How could anyone think we needed more people on the planet? Parents, PIL, inlaws etc all seem to ardently believe in the argument that it is simply impossible and untenable to have more old people than people of working age, since this leads to economic recession. They seem to stop there, and not think that one generation of hardship would
potentially lead to future generations having it easier, rather than future generations being increasingly burdened by overpopulation until the whole system crashes.

AIBU, about dc2 or about the whole population pressure thing generally?

Where is this pressure coming from to provide a sibling for your 2 month old?

I also don't think adoption agencies would consider you yet.

Why does she need a sibling? There are plenty of happy only children out there.

And she's only 2 months, I'd be concentrating on sleep and retaining my sanity, the last thing I'd be thinking of is a new baby.

do you want to adopt?

why on earth would you be pressured to have a sibling 2 months after your first child?

if you are interested in adoption then great, but 2 months post natally is not the time to consider it

if your DH has always been against adoption and would want biological birth children then you are going to have a v v tough job to convince him otherwise

get through the first year of childhood IMO before you consider anything else

YABU to be considering it now, YABU to discount your DHs wishes too

give yourself time

did you have a difficutl pregnancy and birth that is making you reluctant to go through it again

I agree it's far too soon now to be making decisions, driving heavy machinery, etc.

Adoption can take up to 5 years, so vague thoughts of it now don't hurt.... which is why the conversation came up. Except that I agree, I'd have a tough time changing the minds of those close to me (hadn't really expected them to be so unbelievably vehement about something I think is quite reasonable).

I just honestly really don't understand their point of view?

Pregnancy and birth were fine. I think we don't need to be responsible for making the population problem any worse though.

Doesn't anyone else ever think about this?

My parents did adopt their fourth, possibly for reasons that were partly similar, and it's been a great thing for the whole family: my brother is a great person and he and his parents have a very special closeness. So I see it as something very positive.

However, I think you should consider a couple of points:

it is unlikely that you will be able to adopt a healthy newborn; there aren't that many about

any older child you adopt will come with issues; prepare for it to be harder work- not less hard- than giving birth, and for bonding to take at least as long, probably longer

it is recommended to have a two-year gap between the youngest sibling and the adopted child; this is to allow for the need of an adopted child to regress and become a baby for a bit

don't do it if you really don't think your dh could bond with an adopted child; remember an adoptive child has gone through one abandonment already; they shouldn't have to go through another the day their new Dad walks out on them

remember to allow time for the adoption process, and be prepared to have to prove your suitability

I agree in principle about the overpopulation thing, but still think that the important thing in the individual case is what is best for the adopted child. Not saying that wouldn't be your family- but possibly not yet

Sorry but at thinking about adoption and driving heavy machinery in the same sentence.

cross-posted. Vague thoughts sound fine to me. And talking it over on a regular, non-stressful level with your dh (in the way I talked over the possibility of having children with my then fiance) sounds a sensible thing to do.

I think the response here is to say I'm too bust right now to think about it. Your baby is tiny, and it's not as if you would be planning another for a good long while in any case (I have a short gap between mine, but like most people in my position it was an accident).

As to the population thing, there are mixed opinions, but even Jonathan Porritt seems to think two is OK on the population/environment front, whilst economists generally agree a population with lots and lots of old people and hardly any working age people is problematic. It would affect more than one generation btw, as the older people would have to accept less/work longer, and the younger would have to contribute more. Or we would do as we have done in the past and borrow other country's workers. If there was no net immigration and the birthrate shrank to less than one (if no one had more than one baby, bearing in mind that plenty of people do not have children) you would see a situation where each working person had to support several older non-working people, although there would be less money spent on supporting children I guess. Given that people are living for longer, often in poor health, you might have one working person supporting a child, their parents, and potentially their grandparents, or even beyond. On a societal level possibly not their own relatives of course, more contributing to welfare systems for them.

People have been saying that over population would bring about disaster for a good long time now without it actually happening. I guess that there must come a point when resources really do run out, but to date we have just found ways to find more resources, or improve agriculture.

Anyway on an individual level I recommend doing what most people do and making decisions based on your own family welfare and the feelings of you and your dh. Adoption is a great thing, but not at all easy, and I think here you would be unlikely to be accepted on by an agency until your baby was two or so.

YABU TBH. If you have always wanted to adopt, you should have discussed it with your partner. It isn't selfish or U to want more than one biological child, population problems aside. I would not adopt unless it was a newborn - I'm not strong enough to raise a potentially challenging or emotionally damaged child. It's hardly an easy option. I'm not surprised your DH is a bit about the idea.

MarlaSinger: nb dd was an accident! My thinking is making the best of what's already here rather than just adding more.

Nooka: the "one generation" thing - I meant it affects people for the duration of one generation, rather than it affecting multiple generations at once, which obviously it does.
Disaster... depends on your point of view. I'm a biologist, so I think it's already happened (to pretty much every other living thing on the planet - except rats, cockroaches and nematodes) and is just a matter of time before that comes back to bite humans on the backside.

In general: the adoption anathema was particularly directed at adopting kids from other countries (eg chinese "second kids"), rather than at local kids with big issues. While I'd understand any point of view regarding adoption of kids with issues being a serious challenge, I find the total anathema thing really, really strange, particularly as it is directed at kids fom other countries.

i did just shut up about it and go back to dd, though so no real harm done... am just really wondering what other people out there think, now!

I completely understand where you are coming from, whenever I see programmes about foreign orphanages I question whether we should have another biological child.

But it is very early days of your first child to be thinking about such decisions.

You would have to be very careful about where the child came from as their are often horror story of stolen or bought children.

Another option is to look at only having one child and giving the money you have 'saved' into a decent programme that helps more than just the one child you would adopt.

you would also need your husband behind you. The want for a biological child can be very powerful.

Making the best of what is already here?

Do you realise how that sounds?

sorry, I mean it positively rather than negatively, eNAB.

Its very difficult to adopt from abroad now. China has finally realised that they are going to end up with a generation of single men. They have a massive problem of baby stealing and another problem of teenage girl stealing to supply the demand for wives. Its cheaper to buy a stolen baby girl and raise her as a wife for your son than buy an adult wife. The government is becoming keener to hold onto their baby girls so are encouraging domestic adoption. Other countries are clamping down on overseas adoption due to baby farming and baby stealing. There are also the issues of adopting a child who is a different ethnicity, has a different culture and speaks a different language from the rest of the family. People do successfully resolve these issues but its very hard for many, especially when there are 2 dcs and one is clearly adopted and the other is biological. There is a 6 year wait for China atm and you can't get into the system until your biological child is older. You are very unlikely to be offered a healthy newborn abroad or domestically. Children are usually in care for years before being placed for adoption. I can understand your point completely but I can see your dhs view too and if he isn't with you 100% then it just won't work.

Interesting point svalbardy but a little clinical maybe?

How would you enforce such a policy? And how, with this rationale can you justify bringing your first child into the world?

For what it's worth, I think YANBU.
I don't see it quite on the population-control-level, but more a case of there are children out there who need a family, and there are families out there who want children.
I never planned to have any children, ds was an accident which was the best thing that ever happened to me. If I were ever to consider having a second child, then adoption would I think be an option for us.
I also don't think it's strange to be thinking about stuff like this just after having your first baby. I had lots and lots of thoughts going through my head (and still do!) about babies and families and children and parents and - oh, everything actually!

I think the idea of adopting a second child is fantastic and lovely and to be wholeheartedly encouraged. But I don't think it's something that one parent should persuade the other into because as cory so rightly said, it is very unlikely that you will be adopting a young child without significant needs or problems, if it's an adoption in this country.

It can be the most testing of roads to travel and I wouldn't step onto it without knowing that my partner was as the awful political phrase has it "shoulder to shoulder" with me.

I think it's great but not for population reasons. I think it's great because there are so many kids out there desperate for a home and stability and love. Look here.

I looked into it after my 2nd was born because I didn't think I could face pregnancy and labour again. The process takes at least 18m and the child must be 2yrs younger than your youngest. It also has to have its own room.

I surprised myself 2yrs later by becoming very unexpectedly broody and then got pg with #3 later. I think that can happen once you're out of the whole babyness stage so watch out. If you and your DP are serious, have you discussed sterilisation?

I still look at the adverts for kids on adoption sites just to punish myself but I can really only just handle 3 kids without feeling too guilty about not giving them attention.

Svalbardy, I don't think it's about changing the minds of your family, more about helping them to see the concept from a human point of view. Eg How it would help a child, how it would affect them - a vehement response like that sounds like ignorance and lack of imagination to me. Both of which are not impassable.

you are still not convincing me ! but the main stumbling block is that your DH is totally opposed. it is not somthing you can throw into the mix a few years into a relationship and expect the other partner to roll over and accpet it

telling people you would rather adopt due to the possibility of global collapse due to population explosion can come across a bit , well, worthy .

i think you need to revisit this when your DD is older

I agree with Lulumama
I think it is unfair of you to spring this on your dh...

I have endometriosis and may not have been able to have children so dh and I talked about this possibility after he propsed. We talked about how we felt about adopting/fostering etc before we got married.

I would say to dh that you've listened to what he's said but could you discuss it when you're thinking of actually having another lo, you both may not want another yet you're causing a rift about it only 2 months after having your grogeous 1st child.

My MIL is against us adopting but my DH isn't. So we might.

You had a baby two months ago. Concentrate on that and chill out!