to think adopting (hypothetical) dc2 is a better idea than the conventional method?

[svalbardy]

with a 2 month old dd, the pressure is already on for planning dc2. OK, i'm hardly likely to be wanting to do all this again just at the moment, but actually I think there are WAY TOO MANY people on the planet and we should stop at one child. I have always thought this.

If dd needs a sibling then we can start planning to adopt, the sooner the better.

However this is regarded as TOTAL anathema by dh, and by his and my family.

Why?

How could anyone think we needed more people on the planet? Parents, PIL, inlaws etc all seem to ardently believe in the argument that it is simply impossible and untenable to have more old people than people of working age, since this leads to economic recession. They seem to stop there, and not think that one generation of hardship would
potentially lead to future generations having it easier, rather than future generations being increasingly burdened by overpopulation until the whole system crashes.

AIBU, about dc2 or about the whole population pressure thing generally?

if you think adopting a baby is easier than giving birth then i would seriously think again. you probably wouldnt even be considered until your child was 3 years old.

its very rare there are babies out there who are "perfect" and you would have to consider a child with special needs etc.

also couples who are unable to have birth children would be a priority.

svarlbardy I can see where you are coming from, but given that people are now expected to live into their eighties, you are talking about an impact for a considerable period of time. The birthrate is already at under replacement rate and falling in the UK, it is only immigration (and the higher birth rates of immigrant families) that props it up. We already know that our welfare systems are struggling with the growing population of older people at the present time, so combining that with a much smaller working age population (perhaps only two thirds of the current one) is not really a good thing. It is certainly a serious worry for the health and caring services, especially given the role of carers.

I didn't notice that your dh is amongst those opposed to adoption. That makes it pretty much a non starter to be honest. You'd not likely get approval. I'm also not sure why if you are interested in adoption you are not interested in UK adoption. Seems to me you either want to offer a home to a child who needs it, or not. Either way it is a huge committment, and very different to having a biological child (that's not to say it isn't a greta thing to do, or very fulfilling when it works)

YABU.

There may be 'surplus of people', but simply acquiring/adopting a child is not the most significant challenge...raising that adopted child can be blindingly challenging. Believe me. As can raising birth children - believe me agin. But should this 'hypothetical' thought become a real desire, don't think for a second that you will have an easy ride. Once you've got it, you may potentially have to deal with seven shade of shit...however great your love for you adopted DC. If you are in any doubt that you can do this, have another birth child, or happily stop at one. Sorry to be blunt but that's what I think, anyway. And FWIW, we didn't adopt to decrease the surplus population - I actually find that though rather obscene - we adopted because our DD needed a loving and stable home to help her through life. If we had not adopted her, the likelihood was that she would exist from one foster placement to the next, getting more and more screwed up along the way. She needed a home, we provided it, end of...

I should clarify that I'm coming at this question from the point of view of being a scientist who works on issues of plant genetics that relate to nutrition, with a view to attempting to grow enough crops for epople to eat when huge tracts of Africa/ S. America/ Asia/ Australia are turning into desert - and so I deal with the concept of surplus population for the earth's capacity, every day. I'm most definitely not thinking in a Julian-Huxley-esque eugenics way (i find eugenic ideas laughable as well as repugnant - as does anyone who knows how little we really know wbout genetics).

Also, I agree that adoption can put one through seven shades of sh*t (good expression, that ;-) and that one should be as ready to adopt locally as from overseas. The reason I was differentiating is that the vehemence of my DP/MIL/M was directed at the overseas adoption idea - so I was keen to find out what people thought of that in particular.

It's all food for thought, and as has been pointed out, not something i need to think about just at the moment. Thanks for your responses to what was really a hypothetical question.

svalbardy on Sun 01-Feb-09 22:38:52

"Also, I agree that adoption can put one through seven shades of sh*t (good expression, that ;-) and that one should be as ready to adopt locally as from overseas. The reason I was differentiating is that the vehemence of my DP/MIL/M was directed at the overseas adoption idea - so I was keen to find out what people thought of that in particular."

Well, as I mentioned I have had an extremely positive experience of overseas adoption. This was however in the days when overseas was fairly easy and both my Mum and my Dad were equally keen on the idea. (My paternal grandmother never accepted it, which led to a lot of antagonism between her and my Mum, but we did not see her that often so it was a fairly minor issue and as children we knew both our parents were on our side.)

Well that does makes much more sense. But I don't think whether you choose to adopt or have a second child will really make any difference at all. History shows that birth rates start to fall when women have stability and choice in life, when education rates rise, and disease and childhood mortality falls, and in the absence of war. Most famine is because of deliberate or inadvertent mismanagement of resources. Zimbabwe being an excellent, and appalling example.

With regard to the pressure to produce DC#2, just say if you do have another one you want a nice big age gap so you can really enjoy your first one. There is a lot of fun and freedom to be had with just one child anyway. Also, ask the people who are pushing if they had small age gaps on purpose or by accident...

Also, have you thought about fostering instead? There's actually far more need for that because many kids need care to adulthood but don't want to officially break ties to their birth family.

svalbardy I totally get where you're coming from!
I am pregnant with number 3 atm, and it's highly unlikely we'll have any more children ourselves.
I would however, at some point in the future, love to offer a home to an adopted child, or to foster children.

It do sometimes feel almost guilty (that might not be the right word) about bringing more babies into the world when there are so many children out there needing a family. that doesn't mean I think we should all adopt rather than have boilogical children at all... just that for me, personally, I would feel really happy if I could offer a home to a child in need.

as for why your dh and your families think it's such a bad idea,... I have no idea! I think the over-population argument is probably a very minute part of the issue for them, something that they just don't think about. I guess it isn't the "norm" to adopt when you are capable of having children of your own. perhaps they are worried about what other people may think? perhaps they are worried about the affect an adopted child might put on the rest of your family, including your daughter?

I would say if you're serious about it then just chat with your DH now and then about it. find out exactly why he is against it and see if you can assuage any of his fears. If not then you may have to live with only having one child... it has to be a joint decision at the end of the day.
what the rest of the family thinks really isn't the issue. If I wanted to adopt and my family thought it was a bad idea it certainly wouldn't stop me, although I think you'd benefit from their support.
you may find if one day you are in a position where you are seriously considering it, or putting the wheels in motion that they come round to it once they know it'll happen