to be appalled when 'intelligent' people speak of 'pikeys' and ' gypos'

[debs40]

I live in a small provincial cathedral city. It is a white, Daily Mail/Torygraph reading kind of place.

OK, I can sort of live with that even if it is all church schools and 11+. I've lately been taken aback by the easy resort to using terms such as 'chav', 'pokey' or 'gypo' on relation to anyone who seems less well off or intelligent. These people are police officers, teachers or immigration officers too!

AIBU to think this is dated and offensive? No wonder. Jimmy Carr always has a tour date here!

I don't know anyone who reads the Daily Mail. Are there really corners of England peopled by Daily Mail readers?

By Wonderstuff on Sat 31-Jan-09 21:47:23
Then we have a different sense of humour. I am not a bad person, I don't laugh AT disabled people/children etc. I have laughed at JOKES about disabled people.

sorry that is ok, my mistake you are laughing about them, not at them.

Hmm Salisbury is a bit like that. I used to run an agency in the centre of the city. I often came across racism and bigotry in the work place and found that a large number of local people that I spoke to were openly racist.

I think this may be something to do with the huge army presence in the city. Too much testosterone in the atmosphere or something?

There are a fair amount of immigrants in the Salisbury area, (I should know, I employed enough of them). I guess where you find immigrants you are bound to find more racism etc. Not sure I think calling someone a Chav is a problem though. Chavs are not an ethnic group merely a social identity similar to Hippie or Mod/Rocker etc.

I wouldn't call someone a Gypsy but a Pikey is completely different? Pikeys are the ones who leave a field full of crap after them, nick your car radio, get drunk, pay no tax and punch strangers in pub car parks.

On the subject of Jimmy Carr.
He's brilliant.

hmm, Jimmy Carr...I do find him funny, because he is so awful....iykwim....
I do get confused about him at times, because I am sure he is gay, but then he talks about his girlfriend...so...hmm...maybe he isn't...not that it matters either way anyhow...

Tbh, I think most if not all comedian make jokes about just any group of society...they are as bad as eachother, I suppose...

to op....those terms are not nice and personally I would NOT use them , but not sure what you could do, other than just say outright that you prefer the persons not to say it!

irish travellers in this day and age haven't choosen to be travellers - they are born into it.

What ?
I actually admire them in some ways not getting sucked into the whole mortgage, 2.4 kids, must work 9-5 bollox but it is a choice, they don't have to continue the traditions if they didn't enjoy it.

sorrento...it reminds me of something a client has told me, she works with youngsters...and it is along the lines:
we are born with a script, (our culture, talents, family, etc...) however, we are still masters of our script , which means, we do NOT have to go along with the script, it's in our hand to change it!
Well, something along that line...

hi

To whoever asked....all shops are open here tomorrow!!

Also, yes of course there will be some liberal types here. That was not my point. It was the open and common way in which some words are used without thought.

Why use words which stereotype ..pikey etc when you can use proper language to explain your issues?
the last person I heard use the term used it to describe another person she felt looked 'coloured' 'like a pikey'

But please don't get me started on the church in this town....it's domination of education, creationists, evangelicals etc etc!!

Absolutely it was traditional to hit kids with leather belts in my mums family, she was hit, i was hit, no doubt her mother was hit. My children have never ever been hit full stop.
Traditions are great but you keep the good and loose the bad.

Debs40 I don't understand why you still live in a place where you feel so uncomfortable and out numbered ?

Where I live teh term "foreigner" is often used, and not in a good way....makes me when people use it with me around, because I tend to say something along the line that, "oh, I wouldn't like to comment, considering I am german and therefore a foreigner myself "...
really emberasses people and they soooo sooo try to backtrack, lol....
it's great!

We used to sell horses to the gypsys..they were a massive gypsy family in Ireland and they called themselves gypsys or gypos not romanies, travellers, pikeys etc
I've never seen people care less what they were called

I thought it was ok to call them gypsys or gypos
Sorry if I'm a wrongun

Where do I start on this thread? So many issues to comment on . . . .

To the OP - yes - certainly pikey and gyppo are offensive, and whether or not ManIFeel considers the term falls strictly within the term 'racist' (and current thinking in relation to diversity is moving away from the concept of 'races' but recognises 'ethnic groups' of which certainly irish travellers are - I have no experience of other travelling groups) it is still a derogatory term which serves to 'deindividualise' people. (I think I may have just invented a word! - copyright TYOTC). To say that such terms are not 'racist' is a cop out - they are offensive to the individuals it is applied to, and supports discriminatory views and behaviour.

How do any of us feel when people make assumptions about us because of our perceived belonging to any group - whether it is because you are Irish, a woman, vote a certain way - it can be anything - even if you shop at Boden

A poster earlier said you should judge the situation, and respond accordingly - but I have to say, I would be challenging any comments such as these made by those in authority such as teachers or police officers.

Great ideas from JustAbout - perhaps if you expand your circle, these views may not be as widespread and pervasive.

As an aside - I read the Daily Mail last week during a flight (I am a committed Guardian reader BTW) - and by the time I got to page 56, I was beginning to agree with the anti-immigration diatribe, which shocked even me (it was a temporary flit over to the dark side right). I am not saying it is right, but you can start to understand people's views when the same message is being delivered again and again in a sensationalist way.

2shoes we have a difference of opinion, that is OK, humour is subjective, I don't get vic reeves but dh falls about when shooting stars is on, I can get how if you don't find JC funny you could get offended, but I find him funny, not because I get off on laughing about disability or sexism or whatever, just because it makes me laugh. An example
'What is worse than finding a maggot in your apple?'
'Being raped'
Now obviously rape isnt in any way funny, but that isn't the joke, the joke is that you expect him to say half a maggot but he comes up with something which is far worse. It is the things he says that are unexpected and take you aback that are funny.
Sometimes the ASD kids I work with make me laugh without meaning to by saying unexpected things, I laugh, not at their ASD, but because the unexpected is funny.
I hope that makes sense and no one thinks I'm an awful person. Maybe I am, but I think I'm an open minded liberal type

By sorrento on Sat 31-Jan-09 22:39:50
irish travellers in this day and age haven't choosen to be travellers - they are born into it.

You clearly have never tried to help anyone leave this culture - it is not as simple as walking away. I have dealt with victims of domestic violence who have had their lives threatened because they have contemplated leaving the lifestyle.

This is not confined to the travelling community - it is the same for many tightknit communities.

No funnily enough I haven't but as a committed Guardian reader BTW it comes as no surprise that you have.
What do you want me to say, some people are victims, some can just walk away, that doesn't mean all would fall into either catergory does it ?

Cat is right, it is very difficult, and not about being a victim, people who leave are alienated by the travelling community for leaving and the rest of society for being travellers, it is not a straightforward thing at all.

See!! We just can't help generalising

LOL I'm off to bed, its been interesting

Well, I don't think anyone thinks it would be the easy choice though....of course it wouldn't...

I'm not suggesting it is a matter of it being 'an easy choice'. Many individuals have paid for leaving such insular communities with their lives . . . you only need to look at the number of 'honour killings' which take place. Such incidents are designed to send a wider message to the rest of the community about the consequences of leaving.

You can't always choose where you live you know!

Have a very close relative (profoundly disabled) in supported accomodation here who has no one else to rely on and could not cope alone. So that's that!

There not all bad here honest; it's just that being 'tolerant' and open minded is not a mainstream opinion.

Sorry that was for Sorrento!

TheYarOfTheCAt...that sounds terrible....I didn't know there were so many honour killings....sounds a bit like those extremistic fundamentalist mormon communities in America...

I think if we look hard enough, we have it much closer to home.