How do you manage going out with friends who are considerably richer/poorer than yow?

[Wonderstuff]

Went to dinner with a friend last night, we dont see each other often and for various reasons i had a little extra cash and so made a trip to London and met her (hour on the train). She lives there and met me from work, asked what I wanted to eat and (first mistake coming up) I said nothing fancy, but I'm easy really, leaving the decision up to her as she knows the area but implying that it should be cheap?? I was thinking £20 a head max, which I guess I should have said, but in my world thats a normal amount to spend on mid-week food. She earns 4x my salary, and I dont begrudge her it for a moment, she works bloody hard for it, but obviously my idea of cheap and hers are a bit different. We went to a lovely restrant, and decided to order a bottle of wine, I got her to choose, as she knows about these things and I just get the not quite cheapest bottle (another mistake) I assumed that she would get one of the 3 or 4 on the list that were under 20 quid, but she picked a £25 pound bottle! I would only ever spend that sort of money normally on a really special occasion. It was lovely and the food was really nice, in the end the bill was £30 a head, which we split down the middle, totally reasonable for the venue/food/wine, but a bit more than I had intended to pay. We decided, a bit carried away after the wine, to go for a drink at the nearby pub where she started looking at the cocktail list, at which point I said 'do you know what i've run out of cash' and she treated me. She is lovely and very generous with presents but when we go out I really want to pay my way because I really don't want to come across as cheap or let her feel like she has to fork out to subsidse me, but at the same time I really can't afford to see her often as the evening, when you count in the train fare cost me a weeks food money.

So AIBU to think a - £30 is quite a lot to spend on mid-week dinner
b- to have got her to pay for last round
c- any ideas on how to maintain friendship whilst not appearing tight but not going into debt either?

I agree with using toptable.com, find out the area you will be eating and book on the web site, many good deals at nice places. I have used it many times

I have lots of friends who are v wealthy and it is hard to communicate with them sometimes at what I see as a 'down to earth' level.

One of my most wealthy friends looked at me as though I'd dropped out of the sky when I gently tried to explain to her that I couldn't afford a £200+ spa weekend with her and two others. She asked why I couldn't afford it having had two month's notice, I said, "but it doesn't work like that. DH and I are up to our limit every month and there's no saving any money even for holidays once a year!" She still looked at me incredulously.

I agree with Ladymuck tbh £30.00 per head for London which includes a £25.00 bottle of wine sounds pretty reasonable. That's not to say that I spend that on a mid week meal myself, but when I meet my friend in London it is a rare occurence and I'm happy to let her pick the venue as she has the local knowledge.

I don't think your friend did anything bad, you suggested she chose the restaurant without mentioning anything about budget, therefore from the sounds of it she chose a mid price venue that she thought you would enjoy.

Again you asked her to pick the wine without any reference to cost, so she picked a bottle she felt you would both enjoy.

Next time check some restaurant reviews online and find a stylish venue either with a promotion on or a reasonably priced menu, or perhaps both. It would be a shame to miss out on seeing a friend because you don't want to discuss finances.

I rarely go out anywhere with friends. Sometimes to see a ban maybe when wealth isn't an issue. We tend to go to each other's houses with DCs in tow. I only know one rich person and they only got that way by being tight as a nun's knicker elastic.

I wouldn't think twice about paying £30 for a mid-week meal, but I also wouldn't think anything of a friend asking to go somewhere cheap and cheerful. The most important thing to me when meeting up with a friend is to meet my friend IYSWIM, I really don't care whether we go to a burger joint or the Ritz so long as we are both comfortable and have a chance to chat.

So just say before you meet her that you fancy a low cost evening, I'm sure she won't mind a bit. I would be very upset if a friend felt she had to keep up appearances with me by spending more than she could afford.

Oh I agree though it is annoying. I remember when on mat leave a close friend was leaving for NZ so arranged to meet her in one of the nicest restaurants in our town for lunch with another friend. I specifically chose this place because although it is v posh they offer a very reasonably priced lunch menu which was important to me as I was on mat leave with limited income.

Well both friends proceeded to order expensive bottle of champagne and a la carte and it came to about £50 per head rather than the £20 I had anticipated. I didn't want to spoil the lunch so I just bit my tongue and didn't have any spare cash for the next month.

Can't believe someone was charged for groceries. Only time that ever happened to me was when I went to visit someone who I thought was a friend in Canada, only to be presented for a bill for 1/3 share spaghetti bolognaise etc etc, worst thing was she factored in a mark up so when I made a 5 minute call she made me pay $10 for it and this is about 12 years ago.

Sorry..short pause to put DS to bed. National Theatre do a Travelex season:

www.nationaltheatre.org.uk/42966/production-seasons/travelex-10-tickets-2009.html

Also most plays have quite a few £10 restricted view tickets which are OK. They have seemed fine to me. (My husband says they like them as they stop him falling ase leep!)

I've been in similar situation. I was working and earning a decent wage and my partner worked too, he is now a full time student and I'm still on mat leave, after 10 months we don't have any money coming in. When a friend, who earns in excess of £100k was in the area and wanted to go out for food I felt embarrassed but explained that I was now having to work to a budget and asked if they were happy to go to a cheaper place or come to mine. They completely understood and said it was their treat this time and I'd get it next time, and the point was to meet up not about going somewhere expensive/posh. Hopefully you can have a similar conversation and you can then go out in future and relax and not worry about the bill arriving?

I don't think my friend was wrong either, I just wasn't expecting it. Out here in the provinces going out is different, food and wine is cheaper, £30 was reasonable and of course she didn't know my budget, but with my friends here we would go to a pub or pizza express type place, order £15 wine, main for around a tenner. I think I felt quite out of my depth, she was chatting away to waiter in spanish about wine list, some of the bottles were much more expensive! It was a bit of a culture shock! I didn't think to mention budget when we go out here it is never an issue, such nice eateries are not available!

Seems like being up front about a budget is definitely a reasonable way forward. A friend of mine recently moved into a house that sold for more than a million quid. I said "erm, when are you going to ditch your friends who earn sub-50K?" (she's a consultant as are most of her friends). She said "we can't afford to, we won't be able to fill the dining room if we do" - but in a joking way! They are totally laid back about money and I wouldn't hesitate to say "sorry, we can't afford that" with them, knowing they'd be perfectly fine. As I'm sure the OP's friend would be too, it's just about what you're used to.

Charging for groceries, though - that's a different matter.

This is really difficult whichever side you fall on, and I've been on both in my time. The worst was when DH and I were saving up to pay for our wedding, had just bought our first house and were properly skint. We went for dinner with his then boss and wife, a casual Friday after-work thing, and I ordered a simple Margherita pizza and coke, totalling about £10. DH had a slightly pricier main course and a couple of drinks. They had 3 courses with wine, finishing with liqueur coffee and brandies. When the bill came, it was equally split and came to £45 per head!! I was so upset, especially as we were saving so hard at the time and a £90 pizza dinner was definitely not something we could afford. I avoided any future invitations to dinner, and thankfully DH soon got another job!

And there is no way on earth I would ever invoice anyone staying with us for groceries. That is appalling manners imo..

No not your not being unreasonable to a and b

Why don't you invite her to you the next time

Or suggest pub grub instead, or decide on a kitty then everyone knows once it has run out time to go home

i find it very easy to gauge my friends, new and old. some i go for a splurge and some i invite to mine if times are tough.

it has changed a little lately with more people asking if we can go somewhere reasonable rather than wherever we fancy.

If it is a friend who you see regularly, then how about taking turns in hosting? That way you can choose something within your budget and pay, and then next time she can choose something in her budget and pay.

I think care needs to be taken with people who just expect to split the bill and order very expensive food knowing full well that others are ordering much less. It is very unfair. To me it only comes second to the awful people who take everyone's cash contributions and then pay the bill with a credit card - conveniently not leaving as large a tip as there should have been taking into account all the money left, resulting in a very cheap meal for them or in some cases, a free meal (and then using the receipt to claim against business costs !).

Like Ronaldhino I have probably blurted out something money / cost related without realizing at the time that it sounds ridiculous, until my friends call me on it. "QS, you numpty, dont you realize how it sounds to to me when you are talking like this while I have debts the size of Iceland?"
The thing is, friends should be able to talk about money. Just bring it up with her. Tell her "I can only spend £12 max on a bottle of wine" Then it is up to your friend to stick to this, or if she decides to treat you. If she does, then LET her. Be gracious about it.

I have meals out so rarely, so if I am with a friend, and I want to have a good time, I also want to have a really nice bottle of wine, so I dont mind paying. I might just say something like "next round is in you". And then, there might be a next round, or it could just be one glass, or even a diet coke, rather than a whole bottle, etc.

Thanks QS I though I was a monster..I'll be more aware from now on but there again my friends would say...

I know exactly what you're going through Wonderstuff. I moved out of London 4 years ago when I was a single parent and thought I would stay sane by being able to meet up with friends now and again. Unfortunately the train fare on top of a meal makes it almost prohibitative. Very frustrating. However, my friends know I'm skint and I'm not ashamed of that and we always find somewhere cheap and cheerful. Pre-theatre meals are great value and sometimes even include a glass of something nice!

I would probably just be straight and open, and point out that as the one with the lesser income I do not want to exceed my limits and hope we can come up with something that suits us both.

If she than offers to pay extra, it is a/ up to her, and b/ up to you as to how you feel about her contributing more.

Afterall nothing is set in stone and some time in the furure you may be in a position to dine a little more extravagantly.

I haven't read all the posts so excuse me if I am repeating what someone has already said...

In my circle of friends, DP and I probably have slightly more disposable income than our friends, but when we are socializing I am conscious of this.

For example, if I wanted to have a particular bottle of wine - when it came to pay the bill, I'd likely say, "oh, here, I had more than you, I'll contribute blah.." accounting for any excess I thought I'd ordered..

I suppose I sometimes do suggest more expensive venues than my friends might, but always make sure that there is a special deal / less expensive option that I think they'd be happy with?

I know I sound a bit pompous, but I guess I am just happy to pay a bit more as I really like to eat at particular places. But also - I have been a lot poorer than I am currently, so I can empathize with some of my friends.

This is such a difficult situation. I rarely go out with friends as I just can't afford it, I know half the time people just think I am making excuses. Recently I went out and friends were contemplating whether to order champagne or not, I just wanted to cry as I knew that I would not be able to afford the bill.

It seems to me that it was just a culture clash in a way - your friend took you to what she saw as a mid priced restaurant, not realising that for you, it wasn't. The irony is she's probably feeling quite good that she made the effort.

I've got friends who earn less and I have come to realise that my london expectations of something cheap are very different to theirs. So I'll buy the wine or suggest meeting for a curry or something instead nwo. But I think there were probably a few times in the beginning where I was insensitive.

I think the advice here is right - next time just say in advance, "I'm feeling quite skint, can we do dinner somewhere cheap and cheerful like pizza express?" and I bet you she'll be completely unfazed.

So AIBU to think a - £30 is quite a lot to spend on mid-week dinner
In London £30 is not a lot really on a mid-week dinner including wine, but several people on here have made a good suggestion about toptable and also if you go to Martin Money Expert site he lists all the weeks resturants vouchers.

b- to have got her to pay for last round
YANBU, she probably thought spending an extra hour in your company was well worth the price of a drink. Friends do that.

c- any ideas on how to maintain friendship whilst not appearing tight but not going into debt either?
Talk about money, TELL HER that you aren't feeling flush at the moment and could you keep your meal prices down to a minimum (come summer take a picnic up with you and sit in one of Londons lovely parks/commons)and next time you go up research first so you can go somewhere you can afford.