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Original poster

Racist or not?

419 replies

claw3 · 26/01/2009 09:55

At our local train station at the weekend with ds 12, he was looking at news stand, while i was getting train tickets.

Anyhow at news stand there was a section which had black magazines ie black hair, black beauty, black music etc, etc. Ds asked me why do black people have their own mags and would it be racist if white people had their own magazines ie white hair, white beauty etc etc.

Your thoughts, would it??

OP posts:
Pingping · 27/01/2009 11:26

Well said spokette.

Pingping · 27/01/2009 11:26

Well said blu

saadia · 27/01/2009 11:27

There are many things that contribite to racial tension - magazine titles are not one of them. I would say that if someone saw a magazine title and drew racist conclusions, then they were already pre-disposed to those views amyway. Most people do not have a problem with specialist niche publications being labelled thus.

FAQtothefuture · 27/01/2009 11:27

but no-one is being excluded by having a magazine with things in that are relevant to black people (hair, beauty) or for a particular interest group (music of black origin~),. well no more than I'm excluded from a magazine "Fishing monthly" (made up title) because I'm not in the slightest bit interested in fishing

Original poster
claw3 · 27/01/2009 11:29

Manifeel - Im not disputing whether black people should have their own mags or not. Im disputing whether there is a need to have black in the title. Pride, the voice, eve, divas, amina are all aimed at non white people without the need for black in the title.

I feel having black in the title is very outdated.

As you say we are going round in circles, time to call it a day.

OP posts:
WilfSell · 27/01/2009 11:30

oneyummymummy, sorry to do this but my arguments are not remotely silly. If you had read the considerable academic debate on racism (as I have) you would understand that the arguments about 'let's all be colour blind' can be in specific contexts (and in this one in particular) are racist.

The notion that black/white shouldn't be allowed to exist because it is apparently racist is in itself a racist position as it is almost always believed by white people who see themselves as 'non-ethnic' and configure, however consciously or not, the apparently 'ethnic' group as somehow continuing the cultural divisions.

If you want to read more about this 'Whiteness' by Steve Garner (Routledge, 2007) is a decent overview.

Pingping · 27/01/2009 11:31

Claw3 but as I explained a 100 posts ago blackhairstyles is owned by the same company as hairstyles basically its the same mag just with different products for different kinds of hair

Maybe you should write to the owner of the mag and say its very outdated I don't know why you feel its outdated when its only a name and you are making it a race issue

Salem1 · 27/01/2009 11:32

I don't understand the sentiments of Fluffles and Onager or this thread based on mags being racist.

Anyhoo - I've seen plenty women of all kinds in black mags much more than I'd see of other nationalities in mags aimed at the mass market (which invariably includes mostly white women).

However, if you're going to say a mag discriminates on basis of race you have to included that it also discriminates on the basis of

Gender! Why are men not featured in a women's mag and vice versa? Is this sexist?

Weight! Why aren't their more fuller sized models in these mags? Is the catalogue Simply Be discriminating against Slim people? Is this weight-ist

Hair Colour! Are there more blondes than brunettes. Is this hair colourist?

We could go on...

Monkeytrousers · 27/01/2009 11:33

lol FAQ.

And there's a practical element, like Pingping says - if black hair mags don't state what they are, white women might buy them becasue, say, it has a pic of Beyonce on the cover, but find it's all advice about hair relaxing and weaves. People would be more pissed off that they'd wasted 5 quid.

But Claw, we seem to have cleared up that using 'black' in the context of history (which is vitally important if we are to learn from past mistakes) is not racist, when it pertains to practical descritve things (hair) and not nebulous political ones. It's a very simple 'descritive vs prescriptive' perspective. The former 'descriptive' element is objective and value free, the latter value laden and subjective.

Your son is young, but I'm sure if he chews on it for a while, and with your advice, he will comem to undersatnd it.

Now, I'm sorry but I have work to get on with. Glad we cleared it up though

spokette · 27/01/2009 11:34

Woman' Own, Woman, Cosmo Man, Men's Health - these are all sexist publications according to OP's logic

oneyummymummy · 27/01/2009 11:34

I can understand the need for hair magazines/ beauty products/ food in supermarkets etc for british minorities, I too feel that they are under-catered for, however 'white' people (on the whole) should not be punished for this, when there is a need and a market for something, it will become avaliable, this is just life, its how it works. Just like in non-white countries they will only see 'western' food/ clothes etc if there is a market for it. It may not be what we like, however it is how the whole world works, not just britain. So yes there is a need for it, and when the market for it grows, so do the suppies. Calling a mag 'black' such and such, I don't think bothers anyone (well obviously there will be a few ) and there is a definate need for it, but you also have to see the need for magazines aimed at 'white' people (although these are not just white people)

Blu · 27/01/2009 11:34

"Hair Of Black origin" ? (Hobo)

"Hair Care and Styling For People with a Genetic Background in the Continent of Africa"? Now THAT's catchy!

CatIsSleepy · 27/01/2009 11:36

I feel very excluded by Glamour magazine as I'm not remotely glamorous
harrumph

FAQtothefuture · 27/01/2009 11:36

how on earth are white people "punished" for it??

I'm not really a big magazine buyer, but when I have gone and bought one I've never felt "punished" in any shape or form by the MASSIVE amount of magazines in which I could find things relevant to me and my needs (fishing aside )

spokette · 27/01/2009 11:36

Hobo. Brilliant Blu.

FAQtothefuture · 27/01/2009 11:38

PMSL @ hobo

is that when white people have dreadlocks put it

Pingping · 27/01/2009 11:38

Oneyummymummy why is there a need for magazines aimed at white people ummm have you not read glamour grazia vogue and the list goes on these mags cover the needs of white women

oneyummymummy · 27/01/2009 11:41

wilfself I havnt read the WHOLE thread, but from the comments I did see, I didn't see any racism (maybe I am wrong, and I probably should have read the WHOLE thread before making such statement....therefor I am silly)
I dont think that people should all be the same, individuality is what makes everyone who they are (whatever your race) obviously people need to see the need for all the things stated above, and there is a need for them, just the same as the need for other mags etc.. listed above.

Blu · 27/01/2009 11:42

Women are, at the end of the day, people. It is outdated to label us as 'women' or 'girls', oranything other than 'human being' and all our magazines should be aimed at 'human beings'. No more 'red' and 'Marie claire' - we need Marie-Pierre!

oh no, hang on people can be different and equal, can't they? Have different needs, different interests, be referred to by different language even, but still be equal. And underneath all the specialist iterests and needs, still be human beings.

Pingping · 27/01/2009 11:42

Also I am a white person I have never felt punished when I walk out of house in south west London and I am met by polish south African Caribbean food shops I feel privileged that there is so much different cultures for me to learn about and taste different foods

My favourite dinner is Jerk chicken rice and peas I have even learned how to make jerk chicken

Usually on a Saturday night after coming out of a bashment rave your see me at the jerk mans stand

In fact its 2009 its time for us all to embrace the different cultures around us and teach our children about them.

FAQtothefuture · 27/01/2009 11:43

"oh no, hang on people can be different and equal, can't they? Have different needs, different interests, be referred to by different language even, but still be equal. And underneath all the specialist iterests and needs, still be human beings."

well said Blu

FAQtothefuture · 27/01/2009 11:43

you have a South African shop close to you

Pingping · 27/01/2009 11:44

FAQ I have about 4 shops right near my flat and our sainsburys sell all of there products its great.

Original poster
claw3 · 27/01/2009 11:46

Monkeytrousers - I wasnt suggesting that having black in a title was racist. I was suggesting that having white in a title purely on a descriptive level, shouldnt make it racist by default, regardless of content based on history.

Im off too and yes we have cleared it up

OP posts:
spokette · 27/01/2009 11:47

Ping Ping, you have great taste in food.

I recently introduced some of my white friends to curried goat as well as ackee and saltfish. They could not get enough of it, wanted to know how to make it and where to buy the ingredients. I told them that they had to go to ethnic shops and you know what, none of them felt that it was racist or alienating for white people to have to visit a shop that catered to the needs of ethnic minorities

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