to think that if you go up to a strange dog tied up outside a shop and touch it and it bites you, you only have yourself to blame!

[fanjoforthemammaries7850]

Was just shopping and witnessed a massive argument between two woman and one dog owner.

It was a collie, tied up outside the supermarket minding it's own business and a child had obviously gone up to it and patted it and then a woman had and it had bitten them.

The mother and the other woman were really laying into the dog owner. I really felt for her, if you don't know a dog you should stay away from it and I feel if it bites you its your own fault..it's not like the poor old beast broke free from its chain and chased them to savage them is it?

AIBU?

Don't people teach their kids not to go up to strange dogs anymore? Feel sorry for the poor woman with the dog.

BTW - something similar happened to my parents a few years back - their dog was v.protective of my Mum and this bloke tried to stroke him whilst my Mum was outside a shop waiting for my Dad - dog went for said bloke and bloke got shirty - was told in no uncertain terms it was his fault and he should have asked if he was okay to stroke him! Silly man!

ok, I'm going to chip in with another theory.

What if, when the child's mother went to pet it, she accidentally stood on a paw? In this case it would not be unexpected for the injured animal to attack in response to what it sees as an attack on itself.
A childs pat is much lighter than an adults, what if the dog had been feeling a bit poorly and the heavier hand of an adult had struck a nerve so to speak? Or the dog was touched in a way that it didn't like?
WE don't actually know if the dog growled a warning.
If it had, and the woman still went ahead and petted it, then she deserves all she got!

I grew up in a family with pet dogs. I was always taught never to approach strange dogs. I was also taught to respect our dogs, as animals are not toys. I am so sick of this attitude that "I can let my children run around and do whatever they want, and if they come to any harm, then I'll blame whoever put them at risk."

Do you let your children run in car parks, step out into the road without looking or walk behind cars that might be about to reverse? You teach them to be aware of the dangers, and until they are- or if they can't appreciate the danger- you make sure they are supervised.

Any dog could bite if startled or threatened. As long as it is tied up in such a way as to allow unimpeded access to the shop/supermarket etc I don't see a problem.

I agree with combustiblelemon-I think it is appalling that parents don't bother to control their DCs or explain that you can't just approach a strange animal as if it is a toy and then moan if they get hurt! Animals need to be treated with respect.

Yabu, cars are predictable, dogs are not.

Any dog could be a threat even to an unsuspecting owner - dogs have been known to change personality very suddenly, and attack out of the blue.

Yes, of course we as parents need to encourage our children to treat unknown animals with respect and caution, but the fact is that many children don't think this way - the only dogs portrayed on TV are cuddly, silly, cute, giant red ones and not nasty vicious snarling dangerous creatures.

Children don't always wait and they don't always know. A responsible pet owner would not tie a biting dog up unsupervised anywhere it could attack randomly. Someone might go too close without meaning to, a blind person might pass too near, honestly it's just silly and irresponsible.

I always ask if a dog is safe, but if there's no one there you can't ask.

If it was truly 'a biting dog' though there would have been spurting blood, screaming and stitches. Dogs can nip. It's not pleasant, but from a cornered animal (who's tied up and can't retreat) it's a warning to back off.

Never mind the huge numbers of dogs let to run around off leash, on playing fields and in playgrounds and such - and if I ask if the dog is safe with children, the owner is usually quite scornful or dismissive - 'if it wasn't safe I wouldn't let it near anyone' etc etc.

A massive labrador knocked ds over a year or two ago, the owner said 'Oh he broke someone's ankle last wekk'

Well why is he not on a f*cking lead!!!!!

Cross posts CL. If it was just a nip and didn't hurt, then it was a big overreaction - like you say, it was a warning. I've had that a few times with strange dogs and just left them be.

It's not always possible to give a wide berth though if they are right next to a shop door. I see from OP this wasn't the case.

I agree with you completely about dogs being off the lead. If the owner is not capeable of controlling their dog, it should not be off the lead. I don't think people or animals should have to tolerate unwanted approaches and attention.

A dog that has never bitten in it's life before may bite-they are unpredictable.

"Whilst I think this is a very tall order in itself, it does not necessarily mean children would be safe. Does your child never walk slightly ahead of you in a park or on the street? A dog can snap/ bite in a second.
"

But thats a very different scenario. A dog that bites a child walking past it in the street/park then I would say that is very much the fault of the owner. But very different to a dog that has been tied up out of the way and a child has gone out of its way to approach it.

I don't have DD in my sight all the time but accept that its a risk I take. If she does something she shouldn't that causes her harm while I have my eye off her then thats my fault. She's nearly 8 though and I trust her enough to be ahead of me in the street, round the corner of the park, etc without touching strange dogs. When she was younger then I wouldn't have let her out my sight.

Haven't read the whole thread but I am half-reading (it's my mum's book at my mum's house!) a very interesting book at the moment called something like "The other end of the leash", which is about how canines and primates talk completely different languages and how to communicate better (like Venus and Mars for people and dogs ). Having read about how our instinctive gestures can be very frightening and aggressive from a dog's POV, I think YANBU

I have never tied up my dogs anywhere apart from where they are in sight of me and once tied one of them late at night where unlikely to be any wandering kids.

Partly this is because fear of them being nicked and also because although they are well trained, socialised etc I cannot be 100% sure what they would do if someone approached them to stroke so it's not worth the risk.

I would have little sympathy for someone who got nipped but if this did happen I'd muzzle my dog in future.

YANBU. Children should be taught not to approach strange dogs, that's only common sense.

Very clear cut
If a dog is in a public place like a car park then it is the dog owners fault.They shouldn't have left it unattended and unmuzzled

Both. If you know your dog is reactive and you need to be aware of people approaching because of that- the dog should never have been left unattended. Also you should never approach an unattended dog.

Dog will be long dead by now so no need to worry

Why have you searched out a 13 year old thread just to say that?

My children know not to approach a dog they don't know, but a dog that bites should jot be left unattended in a public place. The dog owner was BU

ZOMBIE thread from 2009 🙄

Dogs shouldn’t be left tied up outside shops IMO.

But anyone who approaches a dog without checking with the owner first or allows their child to is obviously rather dense.

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The thing is no one is aware that their dog is likely to bite until it does. It’s very likely it has never bitten before because it’s never been approached by strangers with no means of escape and no familiar humans around before.

the dog very likely would not normally bite, but when cornered and stressed, animals are unpredictable.

any human that cannot understand that is clearly less bright than the dog.

I get what you mean, but YABU. Dogs should be supervised and firmly controlled when in public.