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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think that if you go up to a strange dog tied up outside a shop and touch it and it bites you, you only have yourself to blame!

121 replies

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 24/01/2009 18:32

Was just shopping and witnessed a massive argument between two woman and one dog owner.

It was a collie, tied up outside the supermarket minding it's own business and a child had obviously gone up to it and patted it and then a woman had and it had bitten them.

The mother and the other woman were really laying into the dog owner. I really felt for her, if you don't know a dog you should stay away from it and I feel if it bites you its your own fault..it's not like the poor old beast broke free from its chain and chased them to savage them is it?

AIBU?

OP posts:
PlainOldPeachy · 24/01/2009 19:18

Anyway if teens tormentdog to buggery and get bitten (fault of teens imo) won't the dog then be put down? So couldnt you argue that dog owner was irresponsible anyway for risking that? You can swap the riska ssessment scenario to that also: there's a risk of dog sustaining damage / ahrm through no actual fault if left so...

IYSWIM?

MillyR · 24/01/2009 19:21

No, I don't think a dog would be put down if it bit someone when it was being tormented. I think the tormentors could be prosecuted (but probably wouldn't be).

chancelloroftheexchequers · 24/01/2009 19:21

I tied my dog up outside the chemist's recently.

I was ill and was popping out for a prescription but I wasn't well enough to take her out for a proper walk but thought she could do with stretching her legs.

I could see her through the window the whole time though, wouldn't leave her otherwise.

aGalChangedHerName · 24/01/2009 19:41

Oh god no i'm not a fighter honestly Hecate

juicyjolly · 24/01/2009 19:47

All mothers should know that they cant keep their eyes on their child twenty four hours a day, you only have to look away for a second.
If, for even a second you thought it was possible for your dog to bite somebody, then either put a muzzle on it or do not leave it!
I really dont understand why anyone would ask this question.
Never leave a dog unsupervised if you think there is a chance of it biting anybody! Would you blame the child who got mauled by the dog because they touched it? We cant keep our eyes on kids 24/7, so be responsible with your pets!

DrNortherner · 24/01/2009 19:55

I am a dog owner, and I actually think that tieing up a dog and leaving it is never a good idea no matter how friendly they are.

Dogs when tied up are very rarely in a calm submissive state, they are anxious, looking out for their owner, wondering when they will be untied. They are also vulnerable, and have no means of escape should they be attacked so they are very wary of anyone/another dog approaching.

I do not leave my dog tied up unnattended ever, and I would never approach a dog that was.

So to answer OP, both parties were imo acting irresopnsibly.

MillyR · 24/01/2009 19:59

JJ

Surely all dogs, if provoked will bite. You do have to watch children 24/7 if they are unable to avoid obvious dangers, such as horses, cars, bikes, older children playing in the playground at speed, dogs, cats that could scratch, the contents of a pavement bin, someone else's pushchair that could tip over if grabbed, a bike that could fall on to them.

People are allowed to have dogs and take them out, and a dog would not have to be put down for biting a child. Mauling, yes. Biting, no.

StripeyKnickersSpottySocks · 24/01/2009 20:15

"We cant keep our eyes on kids 24/7, so be responsible with your pets!"

Well if thats teh case then you're not being very responsible with your child.

minouminou · 24/01/2009 20:53

It's a pity you didn't see the run-up to the bite, as it makes it a bit easier to judge how it came about.
People are usually fairly sensible, and I know when I'm out and about with my springer, I ALWAYS say to any children who want to stroke her that they should "always ask the dog's mummy or daddy if it's OK, as some dogs are very shy", at which point the parent usually chimes in with similar.
However, I nearly lost it once - walking on POrtmeadow - a big patch of common ground here....me and the dog were on the path, I was 30-odd weeks along with DS, dog was a few feet ahead of me, 2 women with 2 or 3 kids with them....onw woman GRABBED dog by her collar and dragged her up to one of the children - almost face to face, so the girl could stroke her
I kid you not, people - dog was v reluctant, and was trying to pull away
I went F'kin mental - waddled up to the group as fast as poss shouting "You STUPID bloody woman!!!!! What if she bites her face....let go of her" or something similar.
I just couldn't believe it. Anyway, the silly cow let go of the collar and her and her chum just gave me the filthiest of glares and carried on their way, as if I was in the wrong.
The point I'm making is that some people really are dense about these things, and sadly you can't do much about that - thankfully our dog is very placid, but, as is so often repeated here - you just never know.
If she was a collie - there'd have been bother, as they are unpredictable - i've got one or two scars from my rural childhood - but even a springer coulda nipped her nose, and how bad would everyone feel then.
I think, along with most on this thread, it's 50-50. Collies are buggers, but maybe these women with the child aren't v dog-savvy.
Whether you like dogs or not, you should accept that they're a part of life here, and at least gen up on which breeds are low-medium-high risk.
DP keeps saying he fancies a collie (never had a dog as a kid), and, as much as i'm used to the breed, I won't entertain it, because I know how unpredictable they are.
Plus that, they're smarter than DP!

pinkmagic1 · 24/01/2009 20:57

Six of one, half a dozen of the other I think. People should teach their children not to approach strange dogs but equally the dog owner has a responsability to muzzle an animal prone to biting when in a public place.

duchesse · 24/01/2009 21:03

Back in the old days (the 70s) we were all taught as kids not to touch a strange dog without asking the owner first. Dogs have not changed much since the 70s, but people's attitude to maintaining their personal safety clearly has..

chancelloroftheexchequers · 24/01/2009 21:06

Minou, that's awful!

(I have a springer too, and used to live in Oxford so know Port Meadow pretty well.)

minouminou · 24/01/2009 21:45

well, yeah, chancellor - if anything's asking for a bite, that is
and it seems to be true, duchesse - thre is a significant minority of people who aren't teaching their children this golden rule - i remember getting the "well, you must've done something to ask for it" speech a few times after i'd been bitten
living round here, you have a lot of families from other cultures which don't tend to keep dogs who are living in the UK for a short time, and it's always really nice when they ask questions about our dog - they're genuinely surprised when they see her interacting and playing with DS

fledtoscotland · 24/01/2009 21:47

as a mum to a very curious little boy and a dog owner i sort of see both sides. the child should have been told not to touch a strange dog (the child could have pulled the dogs tail or like my DS1, poked the dog in the eye etc) but then you shouldnt tie a dog up outside a shop if they are not 110% bombproof (preferably not tie a dog up at all).

FairyMum · 24/01/2009 21:51

I am now confused as so many dog-threads on MN these days.If the mother had refused to let the child approach the dog, then the thread would have been about how some parents out the fear of dogs into their children, no?

FairyMum · 24/01/2009 21:52

that should have been PUT the fear of dogs....

fledtoscotland · 24/01/2009 21:53

totally agree fairymum but approaching a strange dog when the owner is not there is out of order. they no nothing about the dog's background and children should be taught to respect all animals

WeeTimorousSquonkie · 24/01/2009 21:57

children should be taught that they never ever approach a dog without the owner's permission. If the owner is not there, then they should wait until the owner is there before approaching the dog.

That said, I would assume that a dog tied up outside a shop was perfectly safe and would be shocked if it bit someone else's child (obviously not mine because they would be chasing down the owner inside the shop asking if they could stroke said dog )

WeeTimorousSquonkie · 24/01/2009 21:59

and, incidentally, while we're not really on the subject, a bit of wariness around strange dogs is healthy, surely. I am so glad that my kids seem to have got over their fear of dogs, but I wouldn't ever want to get complacent thinking that all dogs are friendly, because, let's face it... they're not, are they?

combustiblelemon · 24/01/2009 22:07

""We cant keep our eyes on kids 24/7, so be responsible with your pets!"

Well if thats teh case then you're not being very responsible with your child."

Spot on StripeyKnickersSpottySocks .

nannyL · 25/01/2009 10:17

IMO YABU

A dog that is liekly to bite should not be left...

im a dog lover and will say hello to, and let any tied up dog sniff my hand, then so long as the dog seems happy stroke it...

i was in hyde park in london by the cafe in december and there was a dog waiting outside right by the door, (not on a lead tied up, just waiting by the door as the dog knew not to go inside, and as usual i said "hello dog" and he snarled at me... i went to put my hand down (not to actuall touch him) and he went to bite me so i moved my hand away....

the dog was looking through the glass door so i went inside the other side of the glass door and put my hand there and he was snarling and trying to get my hand through the glass

i did think then that that dog should NOT be left alone

I would never let children go and touch a dog without asking the owner

also with the exception of that dog, all other dogs (even 'unfreindly') dogs seem to love me... maybe cause im just not frightened by them

(even though i was bitten by my own family dog at 3 years old (who was then out down) i have no fear of dogs at all and love them all!)

unavailable · 25/01/2009 11:06

So, stripeyknickers and combustiblelemon - you are both able to keep your eyes on your children 24/7. You cant have time for anything else!

Whilst I think this is a very tall order in itself, it does not necessarily mean children would be safe. Does your child never walk slightly ahead of you in a park or on the street? A dog can snap/ bite in a second.

Surely the dog owner has some responsibility to public safety when in a public place?

piscesmoon · 25/01/2009 11:26

I taught my DCs never to approach a strange dog without warning. I always put my hand out-some distance away to gauge reaction-if it doesn't appear friendly I move away. With children I wouldn't even do that unless the owner was there. It wasn't the dog's fault-you know nothing of it's history. My SIL has a rescue dog and it is extremely nervous with new people.

ChippingIn · 25/01/2009 11:29

I think its cruel to tie a dog up outside a shop

If you need to go the shops, go on your own time, not in the dogs time

Vinegar Tits: Are you serious??? LMAO A dog is a friend/companion whatever a part of our lives - not a job!!

What if a child had SN? That child may not be able to understand that dogs are not approachable? Is it still that childs fault?

AGalChangedHerName: No, the PARENTS are. If a child is unable (for any reason, not just SN) understand things like this, then they should not be going to the shop by themselves. If they can't grasp this then they can't grasp not running into the road etc.

If, for even a second you thought it was possible for your dog to bite somebody, then either put a muzzle on it or do not leave it!
Never leave a dog unsupervised if you think there is a chance of it biting anybody!

We cant keep our eyes on kids 24/7, so be responsible with your pets!

JuicyJolly: Completely agree with the first bit, completely disagree with the second. We can't keep an eye on our kids 24/7 - but that does not make it someone elses responsibility when something goes wrong. In the same amount of time it would have taken this child to go to the dog and pat it - it could have run into the road - would it then have been the drivers fault if the child had been hit?

OP I agree with pinkmagic1

Six of one, half a dozen of the other I think. People should teach their children not to approach strange dogs but equally the dog owner has a responsability to muzzle an animal prone to biting when in a public place.

piscesmoon · 25/01/2009 11:32

If you are out with your dog and want to pop into a shop and buy a stamp, pint of milk or newspaper I think it is perfectly reasonable to tie them up outside! I don't expect that they had gone off for a morning's shopping.