They are better off wtihout me

[LucyEllensmummy]

I think i have managed to screw my partners business up for him (ironically when it was just starting to look like he could make a go of it!). I am just losing the plot with my DD and can feel my relationship with her drifting away with her - this happened with DD1 and now its irrepairable.

I told DP i would help him with the business but have just fucked things up by not keeping on top of the accounts and it is looking like im going to cost hime nearly 2K in tax due to my uselessness.

IVe given him nothing but shit since DD born - and now things are going wrong with her, just about the same time they did with DD1 - i can feel myself withdrawing.

Please don't spare my feelings as i just want brutal honesty.

I have tried to be the big "i am" and pretend that i could do things that i can't and the sad thing is that it is now biting DP in the bum, and he is being really sweet about it - im thoroughly ashamed of myself, its weird, i feel dirty even.....like some sort of disgusting slime.

I don't deserve my wonderful family and think i should leave before i ruin them. I would kill myself, but i don't have the guts

Why would i hate you QS. We don't have to get the accounts in until 31-1. But yes, i should have started before now - i have gotten together all the receipts that we have - pretty sure that lots have gone astray . I will have a word with DP about talking to the accountant, the problem is that we don't want to make all of the fuck ups official in case we get into trouble and obviously once we tell the accountant we are fucked.

DD is at nursery 2.5 hours a day and i feel that ordinarily this is more than enough time for me to do stuff. The ironic thing is, DPs business seems to be kicking off and i need to get on top of this and fast!! I buckled today, im not sure why - i just want him to be proud of me and help him not hinder him. I feel like i WANT to do it and that it isn't beyond me, but maybe i need to do a course to point me in the right direction - we have a sage accounting package but ive not opened it as i just do everything in excel. At present we are not in the VAT bracket as the turnover wasn't high enough - this yaer however i think we might be, but i'll panic about that once ive got these accounts sorted.

The reason i was binning mail is because HE wouldnt open it (debts) and I just was terrified.

Interesting that someone said that they were given extra time to do the books by the inland rev - i wonder who i would need to talk too to get this?

I have a plan of action, get DP to ring his ex mate to see if he is likely to be helpful, ring the accountant, then ring the IR, obviously get the bank statements, the problem is that the payments were in cash and we could have just as likely been withdrawing the money for our own use.

This has bought DP and myself up short, if we are going to make this business work it has to be done properly from now on and i intend to make sure that things like wages are sorted as we go along. I managed a PhD and degree - I can do this!! (i hope) Its actually a very different set of skills but i think if i set something up and stick to it, i'll get there. DP is still positive about his business and i don't want to spoil that. If i really can't manage i'll pass it to a book keeper but i don't think my self esteem can take that failure.

Phone up IR and ask them. They might say no buit they're not ctually scary poeple. Some of the receptionists in aprticular are extremly nice (can you guess what I did for a while LOL....)

Definitely 31st, that was dh's deadline. Luckily Im lied and told him it was the first so he did it but he knows now and is glad.

LEM you seem a little more positive. You can do this, you did it before like you say (and I also did the degree with kids at homething and it's not easy). But if you were in paid work outside home and ill, you'd want time off. Remember that: you are ill, you need a break.

Check the inland revenue website. They do free courses. You can register for workshops, and tackle everything from payroll to vat. And it doesnt cost you a thing. (I did that, in the beginning. I do our company's books.)

You are NOT fucked once you contact the accountant. He/she (?) is there to help you, that is what you pay for. The accountant may on the contrary "unfuck" you.

From now on you need to keep record of all income and outgoing.

Forget Sage. Do it in Excel. If you do it in sage you need to know exactly what to look for if you need to find information later on. If you do it in excel, you can just look through your files easily. Our accountant adviced against sage, or other book keeping/accounting packages for that very reason. (Sadly, now it looks like we need to have our own database developed)
You really just need colums for:
Date - Invoice Nr - Payee - Net Cost - VAT - Total cost - classification

And by classification, i mean stuff like Telephone, Equipment, Stationary etc, but the accountant will tell you exactly what classifications you need.

Dont worry. You WILL be fine. If I could handle this with a master in philosophy, then for sure you can.....

I'm pretty sure that anyone looking at your circumstances would see that it is just that...an honest mistake. They are not interested in t'doing' such a case and any investigations would reveal that your DP is an honest man who made an error (unless taht is, you've been buying Porches and doctoring the receipts so you can pass them off as Mondeos?).

I agree. Phone Inland Revenue (or get DP to), explain teh situation and ask for an extension.

When my DH lost his business he was declared bankrupt by the Inland Revenue (which makes them sound awful) but honestly, they were some of the nicest, most sympathetic people we dealt with in the whole sorry time. They seem to be able to tell a genuine case from a fraudster at 1000 paces. They treated us with respect and kindness.

Hope you are feeling better LEM.

A couple of things. Firstly do not take all the blame on yourself for this. From reading previous posts of yours I know your DP has a head in the sand attitude to things sometimes. I also know that you have kept him going before now.

Secondly - get DH a large envelope or envelope folder thing to keep in the car/van/whatever - EVERY receipt he gets for ANYTHING goes in there. ANYTHING. Then you at least know you have the receipts and can take it from there. Then pick a regular time that you sit down and go through it all. Once a month/week or whatever.

I feel ALOT more positive today - thankyou all for your kind words and advice. Especially quint, you have clarified things alot for me - especially the SAGE thing, i have an online "friend" who has his own business and he does all his work on excel and thought sage was more than we needed. I am definately going to look into the free courses and workshops as i know the info is out there but very often it is easy to get bogged down with unnecessary information and go off on a tangent and i don't have time to feck about. I am perfectly happy with excel, i can faff around finding out how to do this and that, and it works for me. Data bases are ok when they are set up, in fact they are great, when you know how to use them etc, but until you have it licked they are shitty, so good luck with yours. Sounds like your business is doing well.

I have a plan of action now and at the end of the day, if it all goes pear shaped, its not the end of the world, we will have a bigger tax bill than we would have but we wont be making that mistake again anytime soon!!! I am probably going to go and see the accountant and get some advice and then catch up with THIS years accounts so i am not on the back foot all the time.

I feel good about it now - i want to make a positive contribution to DPs business as actually, he is a bit shite at this side of things (ok, so im not brilliant but i can learn!).

No point in apportioning blame really, we were both at fault, at the end of the day though any shite comes back to his door (as he keeps tellng me HE has all the pressure and can't understand why im panicking ).

I'll get there, its not ideal, but we are getting there - hopefully the fact that i am needing to be more involved is a good thing as it means things are moving on - made more money this year so thats a positive. He has been doing this for three years now and we are surviving and i think in today's climate thats enough to ask - for now!! I don't want to be rich, but i want to feel im doing something to the best of my ability and i don't want to have to worry about bills (we are a way away from that yet). Ive no desire for posh cars, regular hair dos (i haven't had my hair cut for 3 years ) and snazzy clothes. Just to be able to sleep at night

Pass the prozac - its all good

DP phoned his "friend" and he has basically told him to fuck off and that he has already put his accounts in. I am SO angry that DP is just accepting this. I didn't like this guy from the start and told DP that i didn't trust him. Basically, DP should have done it properly and i should have insisted, but im sick of taking the blame actually, because i DID say to DP to do receipts and have the guy sign them but he didn't and we were going through such a rough patch that i didn't want any arguments as i didn't have the strength. Not sure i do now tbh, but i guess we will just have to pay this other guys tax for him - he did a shoddy job too, which makes it even worse. Im so angry I am shaking. I guess we are buggered because we have no records. I am going to phone or go and see the accountant tomorrow - we haven't even paid her yet so i don't know how helpful she will be.

Does anyone have ANY idea if we have any come back? And also what to do if we don't have the money to pay?

LEM, I am glad you have a plan of action.

So, the way I understand it, YOU have paid X a certain amount of money for job done, and X did not invoice you for it?

I hope that in the future you dont make any payments, cash or otherwise, without getting an invoice first. Even if that is just your dp and other person writing out on a piece of paper what job has been done, and what has been paid.

Did the guy give you a written quotation?
Can you tally up a withdrawal from your bank account that corresponds with what he was paid, or a bank transfer or a cheque? Do you have any way of proving that money was paid out to him?

If he has done his accounts, this is nothing to do with you. You dont do YOUR accounts just for them to correspond with other peoples accounting. If he has not declared this income, this is not your problem. And you should not hesitat to declare the money for the job done as a company expense. YOU will have to look after YOUR business. And it doesnt matter what other people do in their accounts, as long as YOU are truthful in yours.

Cash is always difficult, because you cant prove what it is being used for. With an online transfer or a cheque, you can always pinpoint exactly where the payment is going.
Do you have a company cheque book, or do you do online banking from your comnpany account? If not, this is your next step. (I take it you do have a company account, as you mention statements)

Good Luck.

QS - we do have a company account NOW. When DP was doing this job it was just a normal account, or normal accounts - he always felt it better to have several accounts, basically because he thought he could juggle his money that way - i never thought this was a good idea as it is confusing in the least.

If we can get the bank statements then we will be able to show that DP withdrew £500 in cash out every week. But this doesn't really prove that he gave the money to him does it? DP is really just wanting to chalk it up to experience, but i feel very angry and resentful about doing it and think we should at least TRY and get some of the money back, but i am so sketchy about these accounts that i don't want to tempt the IR into investigating them as i think it would send me straight to the funny farm.

Fortunately DP hasn't had people working for him much at all this year, he does have a guy who is working for him now so i need to get onto the tax people asap so we can do this properly. This absolutely must be done properly now - I know we can make this business work and the work load wont be that high if i get set it all up as it should be now.

Thankyou SO much for advising me about this, you have been my lifeline this weekend.

QS - You seem to be way more up on this than me. I did the course with the inland rev in about 2003, I have a vague memory of being told that if you lost a receipt, but knew the details you could write it down and submit it to your accountant to explain where the funds from the account had gone. I know we used to do this when I worked at a shop and had to purchase stuff with petty cash from places that didn't give proper receipts. Am I imagining this is legal? Don't want to cause LEM any further probs so thought best to ask you - my accountant is never in when I want to talk to him.

If this was acceptable lem could write in the missing invoices and submit them? Not sure ???

Hope you know the answer...

KKQx

It might be better to chalk it up to experience, as your dp says, if you cant prove anything. I think there is a lot of "cash in hand" and "money under the table" in the building trade, isnt there?

With the guy you have working for you now, you need to decide whether he is an employee, or a contractor. If he is an employee, you will have to pay payee (tax) and national insurance contributions for him, so you will need to run a payroll for him. If he is a contractor, he is self employed, and responsible for his own NI and taxes. (you pay him gross) In which case you need a contractor agreement set up. You can search online for templates. Your accountant should be able to advice you of the best course of action.

I am glad to have been of help, and I really hope you get it sorted.

Doing the accounting for your own / partners company can be very worthwile. It is also a great way of keeping tabs of how it is actually going.

It seems you have the right motivation, which is great. The information is out there for you, and the best place to start is the Inland Revenue and your accountant.

I was pretty much were you are now, many years ago. It felt like total frustration, and I was fumbling my way around in the dark.

Kitkatqueen, I am not totally certain about that. We have done this, for a few ongoing service agreements, where the money is going out of the company account regularly to the same company, and we had either lost/misplaced the initial service agreement, or a few of the regular invoices for ongoing agreements. But for smaller one off amounts, the accountant has "converted" it to part of our own salary, so missing receipts which cant be proven to be a business expense, has meant on paper higher salaries for us... Which is how I assume LEMS partners situation is.

LEM. Make sure that your accountant put you on the payroll for at least 16 hours work per week (I assume that is a fair reflection of the work you do/will do from now on) and on minimum wages. So you can claim tax credits and working tax credit and get the child care element for your dds preschool (if you wish to up the hours and get more than the free allocation)

Hiya QS - sorry but i don't want to give any advice here without your opinion. my dp and I run our business as a partnership - me doing officey stuff, so when the accounntant divides up the income between the 2 of us he always gives me the maximum amount of earning before u have to pay tax so that the remainder is then allocated to my dp and we pay the minimum amount of tax possible. Is that what you meant by free allocation? Sorry to seem dim

We do something similar, but I was referring to preschool. You know, when a child has reached 3 years old, they have a free allocation of 2 1/2 hours per day of preschool. That is what I was referring to. Gosh, I have to re-read what I just said down there, I must have expressed myself very clumsily.

Thats a good point there QS re the tax credits, we do get them now, but think this years earnings are going to result in us having to pay back - arrrrccccccccchhhhhhhhh, not looking forward to telling DP that, but will definately have to let them know.

I think the accountant has always calculated my hours at just below the personal allowance threshold. Will have to talk to her about that. She is very good actually and will probbly be able to knock another 500-1K off our bill - all legal, don't know how she does it, but goes on things like depreciation, use of home as office etc.

Reckon im going to be on a pretty steep learning curve.

The one thing that im not sure about re the contractors is the changes in the law with regards to people doing work for us. So we havea guy working for us on a day rate, we pay him £600 a week. I am going to phone IR and find out whether we can just get him to invoice us or do we have to do it on the CIS scheme which is what people have done with DP when he has worked for them on a self employed basis. We would have to pay the tax but the contractor pays their own NI. Under these circs then i suppose holiday pay isn't an entitlement - shit, i have a lot to learn.

Oh I can totally see how that could be very confusing. SORRY. My comment in brackets on my post of 23:02:23 was referring to preschool, LEM.

I think I got it QS DD attends pre-school for 2.5 hours a week, she starts school in september I'm not wanting to use anymore childcare if i don't have to so would it be worth it for me to say i work 16 hours anyway? Would 16 hours at minimum wage take me over the personal allowance threshold, my brain is candyfloss right now, cant add up or even press buttons on calc

Sorry I interupted u 2 i was just a bit confused and believe me that happens to me all the time!! Glad u r more positive LEM.

night!!

KKQxxx

Im going to bed too - in fact, just to get a little bit of revenge on him for his unreasonably timed request - im going to go and watch the 2 episodes of father ted ive pre recorded - he hates that!!!! But if he says anything, i shall tell him to FECK OFF!!

Good on you, LOL!!

(no 16 hours is the requirement to qualify for working tax credits and help with childcare costs - in the future, it will mean that they will help cover the cost of after school clubs your dd will want to attend)

QS wooooohooo are you there??

I have just had a thought, not a great one - we were pretty much getting full tax credits last year because i told the tax credit people are income was the same as the previous years. I did say to them i wasn't sure but they said so long as we tell them the right amount by 31 JAn.

So, just rang DP in a panic - he said, look, lets just work out what we paid him, stick in the tax and plead ignorance, if the accountant picks up on it just say he refused to give us a receipt? What do you think? Madness?? Im kind of liking the idea?

LEM, Personally I would ring accountant and explain about the payments you were making to this person and the fact that they never gave you a receipt. Your accountant should be able to find a way to put it through so that it gets counted as it should.

I wouldn'nt expect the acountant to miss it but would actually point it out to them and get help with it as early as poss.

I would as you realise on this thread normally ask QS's opinion. but she's not here so thats what I would do.

Lastly - we were overpaid our tax credits the 1st year that we claimed. but we didn't have to pay it back as such. We were paid the correct amount the next year with a small deduction each week to put us back to the right level with them. They didn't leave us high and dry.

God luck LEM.

KKQ.

sorry should read Good Luck!! LOL!!