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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To want to sink to my knees and cry?

331 replies

tessofthedurbervilles · 29/12/2008 16:37

When my baby is born I would be better off not working than returning to my well paid respectable job....that is just the most stupid thing ever. All I want to do is pay my way but the system is making it easier to live on handouts.....

OP posts:
Countingtheflocksbynight · 29/12/2008 18:03

Following on from the points from TreeDelivery's essay and MillyR's pleas for solutions ...

... how about the sort of scheme that sees student carers living in the homes of the elderly and offering 10 hrs care a week for reasonably priced accommodation

but translated to child-care ...

... so something like ....recruiting women in their fifties who have taken early retirement but who are still fit and active and want to work and (perhaps) whose own grandchildren live far away. They get screened and paired with one or two local families to provide after-school care once or twice a week and emergency care once a month. Their pay is subsidised by a govt or private scheme.

Dunno ... just an idea ...

deanychip · 29/12/2008 18:07

Ive done it myself treeladywife, got by on an hours sleep at babies nap time,felt so tired that i wanted to vomit, feeling very jealous of the patient in the warm cosy bed...able to sleep all night if they want, wishing that i too had a critical illness so that i could get in a bed and sleep. In fact convinced that i have got a critical illness because i felt so damned shocking!

Begging MIL to have ds for a couple of hours so that i could work (never sleep....the cheek of me!) and until DH got home from work to take over.
Of all the stress of having a child, child care for me is the worst stress.

ssd · 29/12/2008 18:12

with no family support childcare is a total nightmare

I sympathise with everyone in this situation, costs for me with 2 kids were more than I earned, its really crap

treedelivery · 29/12/2008 18:35

I have no idea what the answer is. I think thats the real frustration of this modern problem . Anything I think of seems full of potential nightmare pitfalls.

SimpleAsABC · 29/12/2008 18:48

so ladies, are you saying that if i want to have kids i'd be as well NOT studying for a degree at the minute because when I decide to have them it won't have been worth it anyway?

dmo · 29/12/2008 19:08

when my sons were younger i gave up my job as a nursery nurse and worked nights in a pub.
the pub job earned £27 per week and i got £30 tax creidts, when i told tax i worked at the put my £30 stopped and i got nothing which ment i had to work more hrs at night to make up (ds2 was 5wks old) in the end i worked nights and weekends and dh worked days.
when boys went to school i decided to go back to nursery nursing so got a great job which i loved and got £35 per day which was great as i only worked days, boys went to before and after school clubs which worked out bout £14 per day for both. but in the hols it worked out at £36 per day so i made a loss
i am now a childminder, my boys are at high school now but at least i am now at home for them

treedelivery · 29/12/2008 19:10

If your career will profit by the further qualification - and if breaking even or loosing money during the early years will ultimately lead to a good career and a pension etc, then you are wise to plough on. For example, perhaps grinding as a lawyer but slower edging up the ladder to a good position in 20 years.

If you enjoy what you are doing and feel it will satisfy you if you are financially rewarded or not - then you should plough on.

But your talking to the woman who posted a thread wishing I'd chased a career with money earning potential rather than as a NHS worker - so I might be negative as a bit knackered with it all! I can grind in my line of work all I like - my pay is going no where!

Countingtheflocksbynight · 29/12/2008 19:36

There was a thread on here a while back asking who had taken a step back in their career or taken a less well paid or less high status job in order to accommodate dc in their lives. The answers were legion (me included).

This situation will never change until father's start having to address WOHF v SAHF issues in the same way that mothers do.

CeceliaAhern · 29/12/2008 19:37

When your children are young, you work to keep your job. The money you take home after childcare is not good.

treedelivery · 29/12/2008 19:52

Think thats it CeceliaAhern, exactly. And it's a cold shivery day when the realisation hits you!

Such a change to the full time disposable where shall we go on holidays years! No wonder marriages strain.

Happily for dh and me we got pregant the night we met our relationship is built on panic and poverty .Never had the wonder years.

ssd · 30/12/2008 09:12

Countingtheflocksbynight, I don't think its fathers who are at fault, they are in the same rat race as us

its employers who need to change, bring in flexibility instead of paying it lip service, and realise their are thousands of women out there not using their talents/brains/experience as they actually want to spend some time with their kids and not just at bathtime

ChirpyGirl · 30/12/2008 09:39

It's a nightmare, I am very lucky in that I can take an unpaid career break and (hopefully) have some sort of job to go back to after 5 years.
When I looekd into it, as I commuted and was out for 13 hours, and DH works odd shifts between 7am and 9pm we would need childcare for up to 12 hours a day, which would take all my pay.
There is a creache at my work but it stil lhas to be paid for, and would mean getting dd's in teh car at 7am them being there all day and not getting home until gone 7pm!

OptimistS · 30/12/2008 09:53

Just want to sympathise. I am now a single mum so qualify for 80% help with my childcare costs, and although I earn a good salary, I certainly feel the 20% I have to pay myself. Before I left my DCs father, we didn't qualify for any help (despite the fact he had no income - was self-employed but didn't actually make any money by the time costs had come out etc). That period was a nightmare, and we had to compromise by me working many hours at home when the DC were asleep. I was SO sleep-deprived.

I think it's just plain wrong that I am given so much help as a single mother in comparison to when I was with my partner. As a beneficiary of the system, however, I don't think the answer is to curtail help to single parents but to increase the affordability and availability of childcare to all parents, whether they are couples or singles. If governments are serious about getting everyone in employment then they have to realise that the only way to achieve it is to massively subsidise childcare. It is expensive, yes, but so it should be - childminders/nurseries (and parents, but on an unpaid basis) have the most important job in society - they are responsible for the next generation. These roles should be well paid.

One point I'd like to raise about being a working parent is this: it's not all about the money. I would be better off stopping work too, but only financially. The cost to my self-esteem and self-respect would be huge. I like to think I am a good mum but I am honest enough to admit that this is because I value the time I have with my DC when I am not working precisely because I am away from them to work. If I was a SAHM, I think my patience with them would be far less and I would do far less 'quality time' things with them. I take my hat off to dedicated SAHMs who really enjoy what they do. I know I couldn't do it that well and I really admire those who do.

treedelivery · 30/12/2008 10:03

Amen OptimistS

It really annoys me that childcare is so so expensive - and yet child carers get paid such a tiny amount of money. Particulary in the nursery setting. The slant in the UK is that childcare exists purely to get people to work - but surely childcare also exists to give children structured play, a social life, and often some informed management. It really matters to the child as well as the working parents.
At my child's truly excelent pre school [and I have landed in it by accident, it just happens to be utterly brilliant] I can plainly see that for some of the children, time at play school is probably the most sensitive and compassionate they get. Childcare could replace the extended social network/extended community/extended family that has nearly vanished since the 50's.

Countingtheflocksbynight · 30/12/2008 14:53

ssd - but men are still the majority of employers

....totally agree hwr that it is they (and the whole employment system) that has to change

BouncingTurtle · 30/12/2008 14:58

Very true Counting. Men are still classed as the breadwinners...

OptimistS - Absolutely, it is crazy that there isn't blanket help for all those relying on childcare.

treedelivery · 30/12/2008 15:03

Tell you what else need to change - me probably!

When people ask me what I do and how many hours, and they say 'Oh how lovely for you' I want to rip their heads off!

Have bad attitude I know but how does having a futher 23 hours of work at all times of day and night designed to suit families the least, on top of the small issue of the full time full life job of parent/mother/cleaner/wife/PA/financial director/estate manager/cook/sex goddess and so on result in lovely??????? It's like part time work isn't considered serious or draining or stressfull - just playing at keeping your hand in. Grrraaaaahhhhh!!!!!!

Maybe for those who are able by wonderful fate of the planets to choose exactly how where and when they work it is lovely - but the huge vast majority surley have this imposed on us and 'aint feeling too 'lovely' whent the alarm goes off, ot CH is sick, or school is closed etc etc etc

End rant. I'm quite a happy person really!

treedelivery · 30/12/2008 15:04

ANd why can't I do bold and italics. Bloody part timers

VirginBoffinMum · 30/12/2008 15:14

CHILD CARE SHOULD BE COMPLETELY FREE!!
EVEN FOR PEOPLE WHO FEEL THEY NEED IT YET ARE NOT WORKING!! BECAUSE EXTENDED FAMILIES ARE A THING OF THE PAST!! AND CHILDREN ARE ESSENTIAL TO SOCIETY AND NOT A SODDING LIFESTYLE ACCESSORY FOR CHRISSAKE!!!

As you may have gathered I feel a little strongly about this subject.

Let's start a new political party with this as the sole manifesto point. This childcare nonsense has gone on long enough.

treedelivery · 30/12/2008 15:31

Amen!

Treat children like humans with needs rather than 1)problems that stop people working or 2)an oversight by working people who really ought to have planned better - and it all starts to look easier.

BouncingTurtle · 30/12/2008 16:00

Hear, Hear BoffinMum!

Maybe you should run for PM!

BoffinMum · 30/12/2008 16:01

I will if you like. Will you canvass for me??? I am a lot better looking than the current one, I can tell you, and I don't do that funny thing with my mouth at the end of every sentence that he does.

reluctantincubator · 30/12/2008 16:15

well the time is NOW ladies . The new equalaity bill is currently being drafted and will be debated (I think) in APril. It is NOT too late to have additions or amendments made which could, for example, extend the rights of fathers to take over a period of maternity care. At least if emnployers thought that there was just as big a risk of a bloke taking 6-9 months off to look after a child as there was for a female of child bearing age, then it might address some of the insidious sexism that exists in the workplace. And talking of insidious sexism, never mind employers, it is our own government that insists that women (and only women) are capable and therefore allowed to take the time off work to care a child for the first year of its life. Lets give the blokes a chance eh?

Right, well um thaqts the extent of my campaigning and political knowledge so far, so not sure where we go from here, but who is with me??!

BoffinMum · 30/12/2008 16:18

The problem with incremental change is just that ... it's too gradual and incremental. I feel like having a childcare revolution!!

treedelivery · 30/12/2008 16:19

I'm with you.

Boffin needs a nice 2 piece suit to take over parliament in. Anyone got one?

I thought it was going to come that men could share the leave? Is that not a given as yet?

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