to secretly wish that people who slag of people who clain benifits

[2AdventSevenfoldShoes]

loose their jobs and get a chance to see what it is like.

that is cos I turned round......it is really only lunchtime.

Slightly scared of posting at this point () but feel the need to point out that surely we live in a society where we should feel proud that we have a safety net for the vulnerable.

I'm not naive and I accept that there are scroungers out there and families that have made a cross-generational career out of playing the system. However, I genuinely believe that these are in the minority, and it is politicians looking for soundbites and support for their policies, and newspapers looking for sales, that whip up this frenzy about people living off benefits. I've never lived off benefits. I am proud of the fact that despite being a single parent of twins from practically newborn, I have never been dependent on benefits. I have self-supported myself. But I am humble enough to recognise that it is because I have had the benefit of a good education, fantastic employers and a great deal of luck. I would never judge anyone for finding themselves in a position where they had no job and no money and needed benefits. I have friends in this position and they hate it. They find it very demeaning and life is a constant struggle. And it is not easy to get out of it.

If we are really serious, as a society, of reducing our benefits bill, which we do need to do as it is unsustainable at the moment, we need to look at ways of preventing people from reaching this point in the first place, not depriving those in their time of need, which is inhumane IMO. Better education, including an education that encomapasses personal and social responsibility and parenting, are the way to go.

well said, optimist

good post

I don't want that, no. What I would like is for people to butt out. I would infinitely prefer to live in a society which has a few benefit cheats, than one where the net is pulled so tight that 100s of people who need help don't get it. Same as having a justice system which might miss a felon rather than a justice system so severe that it picks up the odd innocent person.

"There, but for the grace of God, go I" and all that.

Why aren't people who are/have been on benefits long term (not due to illness of course) who can't find a job, be made to do voluntary or community work of some sort though?

Otherwise the longer they are out of work and have nothing to do all day the harder it is to get back into a working mode.

It is great that our society offers this safety net of benefits instead of the workhouse like the dark old days. However there IS an element of people who wring what they can for it when they are perfectly capable of working. There ARE people who really can't be arsed working. I know some. This is different to those who have fallen temporarily on hard times. THAT's what the benefit system is meant to be there for.

My own mum came from the poorest background with scant care, a crap excuse for an education and no parental or family support WHATSOEVER. Didn't stop her from working her arse off doing whatever job she could find from age 15 onwards, until she saved enough to buy her own business and by the time she was 25 she had her own house, job and car. She has no qualifications and had no help from anybody. She just would not accept that the start she had been given was all she was ever going to get in life.

It is possible.

I have met Squonk and can qualify she is very loverlee,despite supoorting Manchester City (arf)

YANBU i wish the self righteous bastards would get a taste of whats its like instead of spouting shit like 'my taxes pay to support you'

They would still pay tax regardless, fecking idiots

been there done that - and worked over 10 years to make sure i wasn't going to be int hat situation long term.

i think its increasingly difficult and becomming m,ore so over the next 2-3 years with voice lie detectors and work fare etc - to justbe unemployed.

i am of the huble opinion that if there is one carer in the house with children there is no reaosn why t'other one can't get a job - if they are not disabled.

a one eyed turkey can get a job on the run up to christmas, and if the benefits system is precluding one eyed turkeys from getting a job becuase it fucks up benefits for short term employment - then maybe the system needs to be looked at

gotta say though, if your moaning about the amount of benefits that you get - thats a good thing no? becuase its kinda thepoint - the middle ground between living comfortably off the tax payer and claiming benefits - benefits is a stop gap until something better comes along - or you work, train and educate yourself into something better

yeh u are being unreasonable to wish people to loose there jobs. People dont usually slag off people on benefits because they or there partner have lost a job etc. They tend to slag of people on benefits who just cant be bothered to go to work. i think the benefits are good, when my partner losted his job we had benefits but because they pay crap he was out all day everyday trying to find a job. If they paid well he might not have been so keen.

YANBU, I?ll swap places with anyone anytime! I wish I were able to work, earn a nice wage and keep myself. I wish these people would realise they?re fortunate.

Smallships, I wish that was one of my ?friends? so I could laugh too!

I?m lolling at the Y fronts! I can?t believe that second hand pants could ever be cheaper than you can buy from Tesco or Primark!

"benefits is a stop gap until something better comes along"

Like health?

The Christmas bonus has been £10 since I was born at least. Over 20 years ago this was a nice bit of money, but it?s not gone up at all in all that time it is crazy!

Twinkle which council is your friends daughter with? think i may get down to them.

DP was made redundant in July, I am on benefits due to depression. So atm we do get hsin benefit but when he goes back to work we have to find £1040 a month rent without the bills.

We did go to the council but even with 2 children ds1 being under a yr old at the time we did not qualify for housing.

"i wish the self righteous bastards would get a taste of whats its like instead of spouting shit like 'my taxes pay to support you' "

Um, that's partly why we pay taxes - to support those in society that cannot support themsleves. DH pays 40% tax; we'd rather have the money for ourselves, but we understand that it's fair to try and spread the money out.

Like it or not, there is a section of society that live in communities where there is a no work culture. I think the new measures of forcing the unemployed to do community service is a good thing.

I am horrified that single carers of small (under 5's) will be forced to do some work (is this really what is going to happen?)

Several people I have worked with over the years who were judgemental and self satisfied and self -congratulatory (they thought they had done well in life because they were better people who had made better decisions - the others had all deserved and chosen their fates) have fallen on hard and difficult times (divorce etc) and come out the other side as really nice, decent people - unrecognisable. Imo they are better folk to be sharing the planet with since their own troubles.

I agree it sometimes takes personal troubles to appreciate what others go through.

There is definitely an element of claimants though, who really don't want to work and would rather live on benefits instead, complaining wildly about the amount all the while. As I've said, I know some.

TBH it's more a question of attitude than anything else. Benefits are not meant as a long-term alternative to working, for those that are able to. They are meant as a short-term stop gap to stop people starving whilst they sort themselves out. They are worked out to be just enough to survive on, covering the basics, not meant as any sort of "wage".

If the person on benefits is able to work, but happens to be between jobs, and is proven to be looking like mad for work (even if it takes months and months) then I don't think the rest of society who are in work, would, or should, begrudge that at all because after all, it could be us suddenly losing our job and that's the meaning of being in a society/community. It is annoying that some claimants who can work almost romantisise their circumstances as poor downtrodden folk who are looked down upon etc etc. I also know people who work full-time in jobs that barely pay more than benefits when childcare etc is taken into account. They have more right to feel downtrodden than moaning work shirkers.

There will be a certain amount of realistic annoyance at those who don't bother to look for work and whinge about the small amount of benefits they receive because they aren't contributing whatsover to the society they live in. Hence voluntary/community work in exchange for benefits where appropriate. Is that not fair?

All of what I've said excludes, naturally, those who are unable to work due to genuine reasons, or those who try desperately to get work but can't.

benefits should be for short term help, for job loss, illness etc, my only gripe with the system is for teens who have never paid in and immigrants who jump off the boat and straight into the benefit system. i have never claimed any benefits but if I should need them in the future I know I have paid my dues.

tooty, I'm not sure I can agree, I agree for the general population, those who can work most of the time. Some illness is long term and people can't work through it and it can start before you're a teenager. I was put on the sick at 17 (10 years ago last week) and so far I haven't been able to get them to let me back to work, TBH as frustrating as it is I know I wouldn't have been ready. I'm hopefully starting training next year and hope that I can convince my HCPs to let me work when my training is complete.

regular who's namechanged for this (has a furtive look around). Just wanted to say that the people who set the minimum wage spend a lot of time and effort researching what the rate should be. They spend hours looking at all the evidence, including the job marke and employment levels to reach the right decision. It's not just a random decision and the rate is set as high as it can be when taking into accounts things like the current economic climate. Lots of people don't realise this, but if the minimum wage is set to high it can actually increase unemployment levels- employers, particularly small businesses, can't afford to pay higer wates. The minimum wage is set so that people can still claim other benefits, ie working tax credit.

I take peoples point about those who set the minimum wage trying to live on it for a year, but the fact is some of them have, and some come from backgrounds where their parents have been poorly paid so they know more about it than everyone thinks...

Slinks off back to corner...

People on the minimum wage do get a hell of a lot of other help though. I recently worked out that as a family we are very little better off than we would be if I was on the minimum wage. Seems unfair somehow. However, it would be nice if there was a little more differential in the final, real net income between those on the minimum wage and those earning £8k or £9k more, especially when I have worked my butt off for good qualifications and a degree.

This situation is not the fault of people on the minimum wage, of course. And I wouldn't wish anyone to struggle more than we do. But the balance has moved too far in one direction I think.