to get cross at this

[needmorecoffee]

my eldest lives with the wealthy in-laws. She's 16. They want us to claim EMA for her based on our income cos our income is under 20K so we qualify but there's is way over 30K so they don't.
Surely that money is for poor families?
And they are demanding various P60's that we have lost to fill in the damn forms.
We already give them the Child benefit.

It would be fraudulent to claim that the dd lives somewhere she doesn't.

I agree that EMA stinks anyway - it's a totally unfair system, and I know dozens of teenagers who get it legally and are from families who don't need it at all. I know a number of kids at private school who get it. It's a fecking joke.

How do they get it? Don't they check parental income?

Surely any child at a private school would have parents whose income(s) would disqualify the child from receiving EMA?

Easy. Split family. Kid has main residence with mum (usually) who very conveniently does a nice little part time job for pin money, so that she doesn't earn enough to take her over the threshold.
Meanwhile, daddy along the road is paying school fees and probably topping up the EMA with other handouts.
All perfectly legal. And perfectly unfair.
And while this goes on, there are hundreds of thousands of families where both parents work their arses off to get by, not for luxuries like school fees, and are basically being penalised for not having got divorced!

P.S. My eldest dd knows at least half a dozen kids in this position, so it's obviously not uncommon.

but....wouldn't they be paying two lots of rent and leccy and gas? Just to gain 30 pounds a week?
I bet no-one really splits up just to get their hands on 30 quid a week, especially if they are wealthy already.
Given the threshold is 30K I reckon about 70% of families or more get some EMA.

I didn't say people would deliberately split up to get EMA.
I was pointing out the unfairness of a system which basically penalises couples who stay together.
Having said that, Paying two lots of rent maybe isn't a great hardship if you're from the kind of family that's paying private school fees!!
The system stinks.

I'm not sure it penalises couples. Given the average family income is 24K. Single parents would be on mych less I'm assuming.
And if you are earning more than 30K maybe you don't need it as much as others?
But I do think they need to take into account numbers of dependant children. A family on 31K with 8 kids would enefit more from EMA than a family on 25K with one child.

It clearly does penalise couples.
Two 'single' parents can between them be earning just as mucn (or more) than a couple who stay together.
eg among my dd's friends is a girl whose dad is a GP (and therefore we can assume probably on a six figure salary). Mum does a bit of part time teaching (she avoids doing full time because it would take her over the threshold). daughter goes to a fee paying school, but qualifies for EMA, because she can claim quite legally that she lives with her mother.
Parents don't stop being parents just because they split from eachother. Responsibility as a parent should carry on. And it's very unfair that people are legally able to shift that responsibility onto tax payers (many of whom work their arses off and would never in a million years be able to afford school fees!)

if 2 'single' parents can be earning that much...surely so can a couple if each parent goes out to work?
I don't quite see your point.
And I can't see someone deliberatly earning less just to get 30 quid a week. That doesn't make financial sense.

Sorry to go back to the travel pass but I thought you should know that a Travel Pass is applied from the Local Education Authority not the city council.

Forgot to say that if you ask your kids to check with the Students Union they should know for sure.

this for students aove 18 or below 18?

Needmorecoffee - Just read that household income has to be below £30,810

for the travel pass? I've never heard of free travel for children except in Lodnon. First Bus are grasping **.
Our household is income is 2/3 of that.

if they get the CB, then the goverment would know "you" were lying if you do it on your income and address. they can't have it both ways.

Needmore - to qualify for EMA, sorry only read your OP, have we moved on since then!

We earn just over the limit but cannot afford to give dd £30 a week so she got a job.

What is stopping teenagers of low income families doing the same? Just because the live in a low income family doesn't mean they can't work on a Saturday, does it?

actually I told my in-laws that 10weeks. When I was 15 I started work as a cleaner and worked as a cleaner then cashier and cinema usherette all through my A levels. I said dd should get a job but MIL went into conuptions that she would fail her A levels. Total crap in my opinion. I think its good for a young person to work and learn to budget and respect money. ds1 turns 16 next year and he will be getting a job, then ds2 the year after. dd2 might be let off but thats only a 'might'. She can be a door stop.

bacl to my original OP. All this fuss left me unable to sleep. FIL called last night and had a turn cos we couldn't find dh's P60. Said we were unorganised and other things. dh made me hold dd (which is painful forme) while he searched tip that is our house for P60. FIL having a go.
DH and I then had a row cos I think its fraud and dh said why did I care and accused me of caring cos its his parents
see, EMA is a bloody nuisance!

I don't know what the answer is but the benefits system is very unfair. We were £25 over the threshold for ds to get £20 ema instead of the £10 he gets. So he misses out on £300+ because we earned £25 !!!!
I have a part time job which doesn't earn much. We would honestly be better off if I gave it up because the bit I earn takes us over the threshold for so many benefits and the extras that come with that (free school meals for dd, free travel for dd and ds, free swimming at our local pool, free college course for me, etc., etc). I know some will say "why don't you just stop working then?" Given our current financial mess I might have to, but I really don't see how it can be a good thing to have a system that means I would be better off not to go to work. I could accept being no worse off but to be actually better off to not work is madness. Btw I have an adult ds with sn who still lives at home so I can't work fulltime. When he turned 19 all the disabled element of the ctc we used to get for him stopped and our income dropped by over £300 a month. His needs are no less just because he is no longer 19 and what he can claim in his own right doesn't come close to what we used to get. Again he would get more if I chucked him out of home and left the state to support him which of course I would never do. But why not give the family the same help to support an adult son/daughter with sn as they do a child?
Sorry long rant but this subject makes me mad! In no way do I begrudge those who recieve benefits I just wish the way they were awarded was a bit fairer.
I too knew someone when I was a student who used to recieve a full grant but whose father used to send the chauffeur driven mercedes to pick him up when he went home for holidays or weekends.

Needmore - The person who claims for your daughter is the person who has Parental Responsibility for her, regardless of where she lives.

we retain parental responisbility cos its an informal arrangement. Don't want to go into the why's and wherefores.
Maybe the in-laws need it to fund their ski-ing. I don't know. I am pissed off they are putting us in this situation and, totally different, still fuming when i told MIL dd was in the school play she said 'oh as the baby Jesus?' and when I said no, she is 4 ffs and is Gabriel, MIL said but why would they allow a disabled child to have a speaking part?
Which is slightly irrelevant to the topic but making me fume and sums up MIL.

NMC. You could ring the EMA helpline and explain the situation and get the facts on what your dd is entitled to. Then just get dh to explain this to his parents.
I agree with others if you have transferred her cb entitlement to your inlaws then unless ema isn't based on the income of the household she lives in and is based on the parents income then for you to claim for her would be fraudulant.
Good luck. Sounds that there is much more to the situation with your inlaws than just the ema issue.

I've called them 3 times kiddiz and had 3 different answers. I don't think they know their arse from their elbow either. The whole company runnning it is in a shambles apparently (which is what happens when you accept the lowest bid from a private company)