AIBU for thinking that people shouldn't yak away on mobile phones during the two minute silence?

[BoffinMum]

So picture the scene, there I was in Tesco this morning buying a packet of rice, and they announce the two minute Remembrance Day silence over the tannoy. The whole shop stops respectfully and stands quietly with heads bowed. All that is except one silly mum yakking away loudly on her mobile phone and laughing her head off while we were all trying to concentrate on war and Afghanistan-related issues and sadnesses in general.

I got fed up, leaned around the next aisle to where she was making all the racket, and told her to shush, which she eventually did, but I am still very sad and cross she was so blooming inconsiderate in relation to something so serious and important.

What would other MNetters have done? Would this have made you cross as well? Would you have shushed her too?

Thanks sunnygirl, I couldn't have put it myself. I was annoyed at being asked if I had read the thread or not. I had actually. But it would have been irrelevant if I had or I had not as I was answering the OP's original post. I did find the other posts very interesting, however I felt the need to put my opinion forward, whether the things I said had been mentioned before or not. I do get annoyed at disrespect. I have the right to convey this just as much as everyone else has the right to say they couldn't give a shit about November 11th.

Thanks.

I have just read my post again (the first one) I still can't see why anyone would think I had not read the thread.

Bit odd really as I am referring to the OP's post and that I don't understand why people can't give up 2 minutes.....

BOFFINMUM - YANBU yes some people dont agree with why we are silent and remember people who have died BUT they should respect where they are, therefore if a shop says they are doing the 2mins silence then you respect this and be quiet

if you want to talk then go to your car etc and dont disturb people!!

i had radio on and had explained to my charge why we are quiet and he was quiet for 2 mins (3)

I think my dh has an excellent grasp of international military politics etc Greensleeves, as that is his job. You may not agree - but that is why he does his job, so that you can continue to hold your opinions. After all, when international politics fails (peace in our time anyone?)the Military go in to pull the politicians coals out of the fire.

The world has not been a very safe place for nearly 2 centuries now. You may not agree with war; but sometimes it is the only way forward (the second world war for example) and intervention in Kosovo springs to mind. Sometimes you have to get your hands dirty to change the situation and this is what the Armed Forces do and some of them get killed doing it. You only have to look at Russia invading Georgia, and the proximity of Lithuania, Estonia and Latvia to begin to get worried again.

I support the Poppy Appeal because it helps the veterans and their families, and gives jobs to those injured in conflict in producing the poppies and the wreaths. If you have ever been here to Flanders, you would see why the poppy is such an appropriate symbol - there are masses of them growing all over the place, where boys and men were slaughtered at Passchendaele and Sanctuary Wood in the Ypres Salient.

I don't think that pacifism will ever work - if one doesn't stand up to bullies they carry on - ie Hitler / Milosevich - if you give them what they want, they just want more.

Yes, I've been to Flanders several times, when I was doing my degree in modern history

I think your opinion is perfectly valid and eloquently expressed. But I don't share it, and I've addressed most of the points you've made earlier in the thread.

But SGM, you are not HELPING anyone by doing that.
I agree that the GOvt SHOULD do what you say, but as they don't have unlimited funds etc. blah blah, IN THE MEANTIME someone needs to fill the gap and the Poppy Appeal has been doing that for years. By refusing to contribute to it you are merely denying the people who need it the most that little bit of extra help.

But SGM, you are not HELPING anyone by doing that.
I agree that the GOvt SHOULD do what you say, but as they don't have unlimited funds etc. blah blah, IN THE MEANTIME someone needs to fill the gap and the Poppy Appeal has been doing that for years. By refusing to contribute to it you are merely denying the people who need it the most that little bit of extra help.

I've done stuff for the BL in my own way - done charity gigs for them etc. But that's a completely separate issue to whether or not to display the poppy on your person/observe the silence. If someone asked me to wear a swastika and the money would go to helping blind AIDS orphans I wouldn't wear that either

And even if you don't support the poppy appeal as such you should still respect the 2 minute silence or at least other people's wanting to respect the 2 minute silence.

It's like going into a church and shouting. You may not believe whatever the church believes etc but you can still be respectful. There's simply no need not to.

That's part of the point stillstanding, it's nothing like going into a church and shouting. A better analogy would be Christians lining the streets/holding up traffic/closing shop tills because for this defined time, the whole country is a church and you're disrespectful if you don't bow your head and pray.

I'm sorry, SGM, I think from what you said that my assumption of your meaning was fair and if incorrect, at least understandable.

Hello people, response from MNTowers now:

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Although we do understand where you are coming from, we don't delete posts simply on the grounds of forceful language or unpopular opinions.

Mumsnet Talk exists for parents to swap advice and opinions about all manner of things and, as in real life, some of our members can be quite choice in their use of phrase.

We don't think we should be the arbiters of what people should find offensive and what they shouldn't. We generally find it's better to let the boards self-police in these instances - it's very rare that a tasteless comment is left unchallenged, as indeed you and others have proved on the thread in question.

We will be keeping an eye on that thread, though - and please do feel free to report any other posts you are worried/concerned about.

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I am bowing out of thread now. Bye everyone.

Ah yes, Greensleeves, modern history, which fails to learn from the mistakes of the past and we find ourselves in the same situations again. I don't think that you have addressed the points though - yes, you're pacifist, but I've never understood what it is pacifists hope to achieve, in the modern world and how? And yes, being a reasonably intelligent person with a degree, I have read the entire thread.

Had the USSR chosen to really flex its muscles during the Cold War and invade Europe - what would you have wanted to happen? If they had come to UK, would you have expected the Armed Forces to fight, or just roll over, play dead and become happy little communists?

What was WW1 but the failure of international politics and a whole chain of alliances coming into play? The League of Nations didn't do much between the wars, and the UN have signally failed to stop Kosovo, and the EU (under Sarkozy) have rolled over on Georgia recently, as they don't want to annoy Mr Putin and his puppet president.

I won't say I respect your position on pacifism as I don't - but I support your right to hold it. I do however think that it can be an impractical position and I don't think we'll ever agree. I don't think might is right, or that peace is not something to be wished for, but I think we are diametrically opposed in how we get there.

I also have to admit that I have got bored of dh's cousin threatening to arrest him when she sees him for being in the military. One would think at 43 she would have grown out of it by now - he has been in the Forces for 30 years.

SGM - get rid of the quangoes and the client state that Mr G Brown has built up - a man who by his own admission doesn't understand, or want to understand defence, and who has been staving the Armed Forces of cash and resources for years - and put the money into defence and things would improve. Get rid of the bloody MoD civil servants, and let the military do their jobs, and things would improve no end.

LOL, I don't think you can hold me personally reponsible for the shortcomings of the whole historical academic establishment - I'm just a housewife these days

I don't think we will agree either, but I'm happy to exchange ideas and debate the issues, within certain basic parameters. I resent being told to leave the discussion because some posters are bored, or "getting upset" . I'm a pacifist, not a doormat.

I wasn't trying to hold you personally responsible...but I am curious about pacifism. I've never met anyone who can explain it rationally to me. Dh's aunt and cousin are rabid pacifists and all we get is vitriol about the defence establishment and the Armed Forces, rather than a genuine discussion on what their aims are (apart from world peace and love), and I have never had in 23 years an explanation of how they propose to achieve this - now that they've unchained themselves from the railings at Greenham Common!

As I said earlier, I doubt that pacifism would have worked against Hitler - and what I know about him makes me think he's not someone I'd like to invade Britain and subjugate it.

Sometimes violence is necessary. If a man is raping me, I'll hurt him as much as I have to in order to get away. If someone is attacking my children, I will use any and all necessary violence to protect them.

scaryteacher, I'm an MoD civil servant & we exist in order to support the military not to stop them doing their job.

I always find it interesting that pacifists refuse to recognise the fact that their freedom to declare themselves as such comes from people fighting & dying.

I wear a poppy as a symbol of rememberance not because I'm pro war & I find it sad that anyone could disagree with that.

Greensleeves, comparing wearing a swastika for AIDS victims is ludicrous as a swastika obviously has distinctly different connotations.

Good point, Claire, agree completely

agree with cheshirekitty and unquietdad.

my silence was for all of those who died for whatever reason in whichever conflict - ww1/ww2/afghan etc - especially my friend who died 3 years ago in helmand and those who died in concentration camps, possibly due to my recent visit to Anne Frank's house.

but that is my personal choice.

The military does need more money, and defence is not solely the Army although they are important. If the govt wants the Armed Forces to continue to punch above their weight as they do at present; then the RN for instance needs the Astute boats to replace the S and T submarines that are coming to the end of their service. If you want to defeat Somalian pirates, you need to give the guys a platform to work from, and the same goes for sub hunting in mid Atlantic - lessons that should have been learned from WW2. An aircraft carrier fits the bill here, and you then need the escorts to defend it.

The RAF needs replacement planes for the Nimrod, and the Army needs something other than Snatch Landrovers in Afghanistan. There is a finite pot of money, agreed, but all three services are involved in the current conflicts, and they all have differing needs to be able to fulfill their role in defending the UK.

As to your point about PTSD and illnesses resulting from service - the MoD has gone out of their way to be unhelpful to those who served in Gulf war 1 for instance, and do not want to be held responsible for their ill health after the cocktail of drugs that was injected into them. What makes you think they give a damn?

The guys cannot do their job without the equipment, and it is necessary to have the equipment to maintain the tasking set by HMG. I would rather see money spent on projects that the guys need, rather than another bloody quango or focus group. I agree about the housing, although ours is OK, and the pay for the lower ranks especially.

No YNBU, They are. Tell anyone who does this to read 'Birdsong' They will never do it after that. Having said that, people are notoriously embarrased by silence. Maybe a gentle reminder and then forgive them (God I sound like evangelical christian) Am athiest.