AIBU for thinking that people shouldn't yak away on mobile phones during the two minute silence?

[BoffinMum]

So picture the scene, there I was in Tesco this morning buying a packet of rice, and they announce the two minute Remembrance Day silence over the tannoy. The whole shop stops respectfully and stands quietly with heads bowed. All that is except one silly mum yakking away loudly on her mobile phone and laughing her head off while we were all trying to concentrate on war and Afghanistan-related issues and sadnesses in general.

I got fed up, leaned around the next aisle to where she was making all the racket, and told her to shush, which she eventually did, but I am still very sad and cross she was so blooming inconsiderate in relation to something so serious and important.

What would other MNetters have done? Would this have made you cross as well? Would you have shushed her too?

It's not a question of it being "too hard" to be silent for two minutes. I am frequently non-verbal for longer periods than that. However I don't approve of or support the two minute silence or the red poppy emblem, so I don't observe the silence or wear a poppy. I do however have immense respect for the bereaved and I do have the same feelings of horror and sadness as everyone else - but they lead me to different conclusions and a different way of experiencing and expressing my respect. I think it's a bit obtuse not to recognise that and just keep bleating "how hard is it to be quiet for two minutes" and "some people have no respect".

two minor niggles - 1)I don't 'honour their decision to serve', why should I? I'm a pacifist. That doesn't mean I want to piss all over their graves or laugh at their families. But it's NOT blasphemy, nor is it illegal or even particularly remarkable not to support or approve of these things.

And 2) no, I don't consider myself a "subject" of anyone. I'm a British citizen, and as such I like to express my views without being rail-roaded and guilt-tripped by a vociferous (debatable) majority when it comes to my interpretation of and response to the darker moments of our history. It's MY history too, and MY war dead as much as anyone else's, and therefore my views and feelings on the subject are as valid as anyone else's.

greensleeves - Out of genuine interest why do you dislike the poppy emblem, and what would you have in it's place?

I've explained so many times why I don't wear the red poppy I don't want to type it all out again

I wore a white poppy last year, to screams of outrage on MN which completely outweighed any reaction I encountered IRL - I feel that the white poppy is a reasonable compromise because it at least suggests a way forward - an urge towards peace.

I hadn't thought about a new emblem to encapsulate entirely my views, I don't think I want one.

thanks for that

Don't be patronising about a typo Iwant. It is petty and stupid and adds nothing to your argument. the poem explictly says that the idea that it is sweet and fitting to die for your country is a 'lie'. The poem is all about debunking the myth of glory.
And WWWI was completely pointless. Mass murder on both sides. Those who killed on the British side were no more or less noble or brave than those who killed on the German side. The young obviously did not realise that at the time as they were used and lied to, poor sods.
I am perfectly capable of thinking about what happened to them in my own time and in my own way.
I don't need some oaf in the supermarket telling me what to do or saying 'fuck off' in order to experience that.

My partner feels very strongly about rememberance and went to join in with the 2 mins silence at his work today. Staff who wanted to observe it were told to go to the break area. However, there was a group of people in there who refused to leave and shouted loudly over a game of pool during the silence. How disrespectful.

Apologies for the 'subject' As soon as I had written it I realised I should have written 'citizen'.

Absolutely agree with YOUR history and YOUR war dead etc. We dont agree with each other, but your opinions are just as valid - I wouldnt say otherwise.

When I say 'too hard' I dont mean it as in 'not easy' because of course ANYONE is able to be quiet for 2 mins. I just wonder, could you not put your feelings aside for those 2 mins? Again, dont want to assume that you dont, and insult you - I'm doing that generalisation thing again () and using You as a sounding board.

You are a pacifist. You have chosen not to fight, not to support wars et al. I support you in you choice, it's not for me, but I respect that it is your decision and your opinion.

Some people are religious - I'm not, but support their decision to be.

My husband is into football, I hate it, but resign myself to watching Liverpool kick a ball round a field once a week

Other men and women have chosen to be in the Forces. It is their decision to serve - and to risk being killed. For me the 'honour' is honouring their decision - even if I didn't agree with it - because it was their decision.. Those that have died have died 'for us' whether we wanted them to or not, they believed they were doing it 'for us' even if we dont agree. I want to show respect for them - it doesnt matter if I believe in their cause - they did.

Am I any clearer? I know WHAT I want to say, but I'm not very good and the HOW to say it.

Quite. Gunned down like rats in the mud for a few feet of ruined land and a bit of barbed wire.. Very honourable and glorious

Look! I can point out the three wwws where there should be two. Saved you the trouble, eh?

They may do the silence but how many actually know the dates in history & what happened?

Mousemate, that all sounds fine to me

As I said, I don't rush out into the street at 10.59 on 11/11 looking for weeping grandmothers to lambast. But I don't observe the two minute silence or wear a poppy, and I get hacked off with self-righteous people assuming that this is due to some sort of slovenly apathetic omission, or because I am callow and heartless and have no "respect".

I think the hordes of uninvolved bored idiots emoting in front of the telly while wreaths are being laid and guns fired are being bloody disrespectful. If you want to experience someone else's cathartic grief in a nice safe little time bubble, go and see ET or something.

I wish Remembrance Day was all about feelings of sadness, humility, regret and wishing it had never happened. I get the feeling it is (the moving Cenotaph ceremony aside, actually) about jingoism and militarism. I think the aggression shown on this thread to those who choose not to join in shows how much more like militarism it is rather than sadness and regret.

I think that the aggression is shown towards people who are disrespectful of it, which is very different to not joining in.

The times that I have been forced to church I have always been respectfully quiet at the time of prayer or whatever else is going on, though I am strongly opposed to religion.

Greeny, When you say that you dont observe the 2 min silence, do you actually talk through it, or just go about your business as normal?

I would find it terribly disrespectful to talk through it - I cannot imagine anyone doing that on purpose and would be horrified to think that anyone did.

If you just go about your business, then fair play because you are still showing respect for other people, without feeling you need to join in.

The 'people emoting in front of the TV thing' is a little black and white for me - Yes I suppose I am 'involved'. I have lost 7 friends since 2003, another friend in NI and a relative in the Falklands. I dont think about them day to day - I'd be a gibbering wreck if I did. So 11/11 is a day that I 'allow' myself to remember them and be emotional.

For some of my friends though, those not 'involved', it is the sight of elderly men weeping that makes them cry. I can understand that. I cried when I watched a mner's vid about her daughter - despite not knowing, never meeting her, and having no experience in going through what she does - I knew that she felt emotion when she made it, so that set me off. CYSWIM?

By mabanana on Tue 11-Nov-08 18:26:21
But in the 50s, 60s and 70s, nobody stood silent for two minutes or were hissed at or told to 'fuck off'. I'm not sure we've really grown, morally, on this issue.

Actually they did. I have done it since the late 60's.

Having reletives and friends in wars from WWII to present days and being put on stand by myself to go to Bosnia (I was in the TA and the only reason I didn't go was I had a serious accident and am now disabled.) I feel that by spending a couple of minutes reflecting on all conflict is a good thing for all. I think we have become immune to the horrors of war as it is reported and pictured so much on the TV. We need to pass on to our children and our childrens children what it all means.

Lots of people stand still - but don't know what it's fully about.

I do do the silence and all that...but I always feel a bit weird....because I am german...dh assures me it is remembrance of all soldiers fallen in war, he should know...
but I still feel weird doing it....iykwim

I wouldn't have shushed her but had I been a cashier and had she wanted serving then I would have waited for the 2 minutes to be over. I don't think it's wrong for people to carry on as normal if they want to as long as they don't attempt to stop other people being silent if they choose to be.

Surely the whole point of the 2 minutes' silence is to acknowledge that death is not "glorious". It's to remember those who died and to hope (or pray, if you are that way inclined) that one day we will find a better solution than wars.

I think people who are "anti" it all are a bit chippy. There is nothing "pro-military" or "pro-war" or anything like that about observing the silence. It is about respecting the dead. I am the least militaristic person I know, and yet i do it.

Yes, I can see what you mean. I'll have to think about that. I cry over MNers' bereavements too, every time. Hmmmm.

I still won't be observing the two minutes' silence though, or wearing a red poppy. I see them as passive, misty-eyed gestures which are in themselves an insult to those who were butchered so pointlessly. I prefer to get angry about injustice and do what I can in my everyday life to oppose militarism and promote peace.

I go about my everyday business, I don't start jabbering on purpose to stop other people from having their time, if they want it. If my phone rang while I was in the company of people who wanted the silence - I'd probably switch it off. But if my workplace dragged everyone out onto the green to stand and "do the two minutes silence" I would nip round the corner for a packet of Polos and reappear afterwards. I did in fact, last year. And got a lot of "how-could-you" faces from people who wouldn't know a political argument if it jumped out of their Special K

FairLady... It is all soldiers. I have been to joint Brit/German ceremonies and have seen old men on 'opposing' sides embrace each other - now that was humbling.

I'm with Greensleeves in many ways.

I would imagine that she (greensleeves) doesn't make a special effort or attempt to disrupt other people's ideas of respect and certainly wouldn't deliberately try to break their silence, but instead makes a choice to carry on as normal. That is her choice.

I wore a white popy as a teen and young adult, not because I was trying to upset people but because I was (am) very anti-war and didn't see why I should be expected to wear a red one. Now I don't wear any but neither do I piss on other people's parade. if they want to do that then fine but it isn't compulsory and not wearing a poppy or talking through the silence doesn't mean you are being disrespectful.

By Greensleeves on Tue 11-Nov-08 19:48:09
I've explained so many times why I don't wear the red poppy I don't want to type it all out again

I wore a white poppy last year, to screams of outrage on MN which completely outweighed any reaction I encountered IRL - I feel that the white poppy is a reasonable compromise because it at least suggests a way forward - an urge towards peace.

I hadn't thought about a new emblem to encapsulate entirely my views, I don't think I want one.

I have worn white poppies as well. Do you know they are as old as the red poppies? But after much thought I am proud to wear my red poppy.

Yes, I know the story of the white poppy (if I didn't I wouldn't wear one)

I wouldn't ever wear a red one but I might wear a white one again.