Am I being unreasonable to conclude that women have to make more sacrifices than men to make a marriage (with kids) work?

[cappy1]

After a tubulent 19 months of marriage since having my ds I have come to the conclusion that if I want to make my marriage work I am going to have to 'give in' and start to put my ds first, husband second and piddly little me third!!

Trying to make things equitable is causing me to become a total nagging misery of a wife which makes my husband withdrawl which then sets up a cycle of nagging fighting complaining and surprise surprise more withdrawl...

I think it depends on the personalities. I agree it certainly feels that it all comes down to you and, to me at least, DH dips in and out of various responsibilities as he likes.

Don't think you necessarily have to put yourself last. I think it about trying to find solutions to things that tick your boxes at the same time as satisfying others.

Are there particular areas of trouble?

I think we do . Men (generally) while they may help in their various ways leave all the worry and responsibility to us knowing we will sort it. It's a bit like the old story you get about men never cleaning because they say they don't notice it and then do it badly when it's pointed out to them so that in the end you take over. I think men know if they're inactive enough - it will get done -by us. Sadly I have let myself become the one in charge of traditionally male domain stuff too, like remortgaging, and other financial stuff. My dh is not particularly sexist either but we have fallen into this situation after me having more time after a series of periods of maternity leave.

It's motherhood that keeps us in our place dontcha know.

Well I wouldn't put up with it, but then I don't want a partner anyway (and that is one of the reasons why). It depends: how big a deal is it to have a live-in partner? Is it important enough to put up with the fact that you've picked one who thinks that possession of a penis makes him the most important person in the household?

Sometimes I find it's worth testing how they get on alone. One day I was so fed up by DH and DS I went to bed turned the Tv on and shut the door at 10 am and refused to get up.

It was childish but I felt I was saying ' treat me with respect or I'll go on strike for longer'. I felt better afterwards. it is important to let them get on with things on their own sometimes. Even if it menas they live off crisps and chocolate for a day - they didn't by the way.

Wobblypig - yes there are areas of trouble. He works long hours therefore I am by myself and doing childcare most evenings, mornings and and often weekends. When he is off from work we do spend time together but he is often sleeping or out with his friends which infuriates me. Oh yes and I am sure because of these problems our sex life is crap too...

sorry to read things are tough at mo hope this resolves

I think it depends on what your definition of a marriage working is.

In order to make a marriage work for a man, yes I think you do have to be more self-sacrificing for many of them.

In a lot of cases, I think marriage as it is currently constructed simply doesn't work as well for women as it works for men. For many of them it may work better than being single however.

its all about how you communicate. and to realise that what are your priorities are not necesserily his.

and what are his - perhaps should become yours!!!

so going out and getting a life with friends outside the home

make this one of your priorities - then there has to be equity in the 'going out' stakes.

he gets ri and you get sat or he gets weekend A and you get weekend B etcetc

he has set chores.

throughour my married life there have been periods of time whee i have worked long hours and dh has had to do the school run and homeworks and all that business.

now dh works long hours and its my turn.

dh doesn't get home until 7pm and leaves at 5.30am which means bedtime of 10.30pm

thats only just over three hours.

his jobs (chores)

iron kids uniform monday morning
tidy our bedroom and hang all clothes washed during week on a sunday
put the bins out for bin men
empty kitchen bin.

thats not a lot really. but its about actually stating it - coming to an agreement....... right you are working long hours thats not a get out of jail free card - so whats your part.

you know what he has to do and he knows too.

also - dh and i have over manyyears got a routine - we eat together and then he does a bit of his computer thing and i do a bit of my computer thing - you could equate this to you watch you programmes whilst he watches footy or something?

then come 9,30 ish (usually) we make time together for an hour together watching stuff we like - its what we do.

communication - is the point ( the long drawn out point ) i am trying to make

Yes, he needs to get rid of the idea that because he works an 8 hour day in paid employment he doesn't have to do any domestic work or childcar (but that you should be expected to be on duty 24/7 in return for your board and lodging).

I think men so often don't think! I would consider my DH to be on the good end of the spectrum, particularly conidsering the arsewipes i often read about on here.

He does his bit, but I certainly do more. But oddly, if I were to complain about him, it's less about the "work/duty" stuff and more that come weekends/evenings he doesn't DO anything.

If we go out, I have to suggest it, organise the babysitter, book the table etc. He goes off and does stuff with the boys from time to time, and I can do the same - though don;t get so many opportunities. But if it was left to him, nothing would ever happen.

interesting posts. I am reading and thinking which is why I have not written anything yet

No yanbu. This is why I left my relationship. I was so fucking resentful unhappy with the status quo.

I think it depends on a) who you marry and b) how you communicate. It's frighteningly easy to become a 'nagging wife' and I barely recognised myself by the time my maternity leave ended. We're currently working on not falling into the stereotypical roles but it's hard!!

Well I cannot change the first part a) that is why I am trying to make this work, But b) communication - hum lets see the only way I can see that changing is if I do not ask for anything, expect anything, request anything, suggest anything - just leave him to get on with his life and occansionally play with/look after ds when he feels he has rested enough, partied enough and is not worried about getting more work - oh so that will be once a month maybe - but lets not forget I am not to say anything about the frequency of this otherwise I cause another grumpy moody miserable weekend

I know that was a total rant

No - yanbu - sounds like a selfish arse to me.

So what was it like before you had your DS? Were there elements of this kind of behaviour, which have just got worse, or has it all begun since?

Oh no you ANBU, this has become a major topic in my house lately, a woman does do more than the man, imo. We mother cook clean some of us work, yet still do more of the chores!

Dont put yourself anywhere near 3rd, make yourself No1, I spent years trying to be everything, and failing at everything.

Let him take care of himself, back off with the questions, let him mess things up for himself, not your problem.

i work very hard for my family, both at home and at work, but I also have come to realise that men achieve a great deal in their working lives because we ENABLE them, well its about time they did some enabling for us!

Dont you dare put yourself anywhere near 3rd, he will only treat you how you allow him to treat you, dont allow anything less than absolute care and respect.

colacubes - I think you make a very good point! I don't mind doing a "bit " more housework but I do not want to be treated with a "bit" less respect....

YANBU - marriages work because women make them work.

A frightening amount of men will lose their wives, children and home because they won't work at their marriages.

Storminateacup - I just don't really want to party that much because I cannot handle dealing with a toddler when I am hung over or another row when I ask for him to look after ds so I can recover! I never really get a break when I am in the house because ds is really clingy at the moment and just seeks me out and wants me to do everything for him. I really only get a break when I am out of the house.

Clam - we both partied loads before we had ds and got married. I have changed sinced having ds if not becasue of but precipitated by being pregnant and bf for 16 months so now I am 'back on the scene' I would like to get back into it but it is not that interesting or fun for me mainly becasue of having to deal with hangover as I said before.

He never did much cleaning before we got married - I guess things have changed as ofcourse they do - what is important to me has changed. But I like the idea suggested by colecubes - let him get on with things himself - but it just feels like we would be leading separate lives... bit sad

I think it's down to individuals.

Some women pick a man who puts himself first and expects his wife to do likewise. Generally people don't undergo a personality change ... if you get into a relationship with a selfish person then they're likely to remain that way, whether male or female.

I think the starting point has to be believing yourself that women and men are equal human beings, and there is no law which says one gender have to be better at cooking/cleaning/playing with the kids/earning money. Once you start off on that basis, then it's a matter of tweaking the bits of a relationship to make it run smoothly, not trying to rewrite the whole script.

Colecubes - I like your thinking but what about being part of a team - can't we enable eachother to provide for the family?