to think surgery on children with Down's syndrome is utterly hideous?

[pyjamarama]

At a recent seminar I learnt that certain surgeons in the States (isn't it always) are performing facial surgery ie. tongue reduction, jaw set back, eye surgery to make eyes less "mongoloid". All this in order that the children look more "normal" and so are less likely to be bullied, therefore be happier in the long run. AIBU to thinkthat firstly this in no way justifies painful and risky surgery; and secondly bullies would still pick on the\child as they would still be different? Has anyone any experience of this? Particularly in the UK?

Think this is the sort of decision that should be up to the individual with DS, not the parents.

I know someone with DS who is doing 9GCSE's and goes to and from school completely independently. There's such a lot of ignorance around about DS that many people don't even realise that's a possibility. I can imagine that people with DS face prejudice on a daily basis. If they chose plastic surgery to reduce snap judgements that would be their choice. But it should only ever be their choice. Not a parent's.

I saw a thing a long ago time (perhaps 30 years) about this. They got a lot of parents of children with Down's syndrome together to discuss it. Both sides made good points and there was no real conclusion except that they were all trying to do their best. Neither side seemed particularly nasty, just struggling to do the right thing.

Some of it was useful surgery to help speech and so on. Some was so that other children (and adults too) wouldn't see a difference and treat them differently.

Some argued that it was a good thing for their 'condition' to be visible since people wouldn't expect them to be able to do things they couldn't. Others felt that was like hanging a sign round the child's head saying "disabled" and that everything that could be done should be done.

There were other things discussed too. I expect it's different now, but apparently there was a tendency to dress these children in 'practical' clothes "because they won't care what they wear" and some said "but why not dress them fashionably and do their hair really nice? why make them stand out even more"

My cousin (in his 40s) would have benefitted tremendously from having tongue surgery - it's so big it's really hard for him to form words and he tends to communicate in accented grunts. I find it highly unlikely that there are many people queueing to put their DS kids through surgery simply for aesthetic reasons.

actually don't think that this surgery could be carried out without the individual's consent. Not now. The ethics wouldn't allow it.

What would be good would be a society that didn't make all sorts of assumptions because someone has a visible disability.

I don't think it's anyone elses business but theirs and their families.

I think parents need to make decisions on medical issues if the child is too young to understand or never has the ability to understand. Cosmetic issues should be up to the individual disabled person and what they want.
I've had to make and will have to make medical decisions for dd as she is 4 - like getting the feeding tube put through her tummy. Other issues like her hip surgery because they will become dislocated will be her decision. Right now they are only subluxed and not causing any pain or problems. When they do dislocate she will be 9 or so and able to decide for herself. Same with the thing with the hands.
I don't feel I have the right to make cosmetic decisions.
There needs to be a balance between the wishes of the disabled person and the parents who are genreally ND.

I've never looked at your photos before thomcat, they are beautiful. Do you have photography training?

No, no photography training. DP took a lot of those pics though I think and he's just self taught and now gets paid to take a few pics now and then. Thanks for the nice comments

He's very good then - and your children are blessed with good looks, too