to think surgery on children with Down's syndrome is utterly hideous?

[pyjamarama]

At a recent seminar I learnt that certain surgeons in the States (isn't it always) are performing facial surgery ie. tongue reduction, jaw set back, eye surgery to make eyes less "mongoloid". All this in order that the children look more "normal" and so are less likely to be bullied, therefore be happier in the long run. AIBU to thinkthat firstly this in no way justifies painful and risky surgery; and secondly bullies would still pick on the\child as they would still be different? Has anyone any experience of this? Particularly in the UK?

just look different Grammaticus. She has no hand or arm function at all due to cerebral palsy so her hands have turned in in a 'tradicional' as it were, pose.
So the doc suggested cutting her wrist muscles and splinting to make her hands look 'normal'.
I said she is normal and if people stare they have a problem.

I see. Hard to see why they would suggest your DD have an operation, general anaesthetic etc, with so little benefit, isn't it.

looking normal I supose. I think some docs think parnets or the disabled person want that - hence the surgery that is offered to people with DS.

lth, IMO there's nothing quite as gorgeously kisssable as fat soft baby cheeks

What the chuffing hell would you change about the face of a child with DS? How bizarre

Eye surgery to make their eyes look less "mongoloid". WTF???????????

To make them look "normal".

I think I'll choose to LOL rather then get upset or angry. It's laughable.

Then again are parents actually putting theor children through this? Really.

I need the addressess of all those parents!

Have a look at the pics of DD1 on my profile. What would you change about her? Nothing. She's beautiful. The fact that some of her characters are unique to a child with Down's syndrome just add to how beautiful she is.

As others have said, it is not just a question of taking off rose-tinted glasses and accepting that there are bullies around: it is also about the fact that there are massive problems connected with hidden disabilities. Children who have them get bullied precisely because they don't look disabled.

thomcat she is beautif.
Kids get bullied whatever, ds has been bullied because his siter is disabled.
silly reason to put a child through surgery

needmorecoffee hope you told the doc to fuck off, or did you offer to break his wrists?

Putting my child under the knife to make her eyes look more 'normal' will not protect her from bullies.

She'll always be shorted than everyone else. She'll possibly have a weight problem, she'll possibly always have speech difficulties, she'll have other health issues, need glasses, possibly have hearing problems, probably always have a slightly odd walk, have what we would deam to be irrational fars, she'll have behaviour problems, there are a thousand things that can make her stand out to a child who doesn't have DS. Putting her under the knife to 'normalise' her facial features isn't going to protect her.

If at 18 + years she decides she really, really wants to have her ears pinned back I would discuss it at lenngth withher nad look into doing this with her and make a decision together about it. But putting her under the kiniofe to make her look more like everyone else, good God no

Thomcat good post. although I wouldn't "judge" soemone for doing it, as I find it hard to believe any one would be cruel enough to do it, just to make their dc look "normal"

my dd has cp and is BEAUTIFUL. the ugly people are the ones who cannnot see her beauty and just see her CP.

Thomcat and geekgirl - beautiful babes

I guess when it cam eto it I wouldn't judge, i'm a bit too live and let live. I think if a parent did put their child under the knife they would have very good reasons too. I can't actually believe anyone would put their child on an operating theatre juyst to make their eyes look a bit like everyone elses.

there was a couple on the Channel 4 series following children with special needs as they grew whose son with DS had tongue surgery.

BUT, it was an agonising decision for them that they made when he was a bit older because his speech was seriously suffering.

they had worked very hard to make his communication skills the best they can, along with a team of carers, and had come to the decision after many years together with their doctors and carers.

even though it wasn't for cosmetic reasons, they still were plagued with guilt.

not all people who chose such procedures for their children are doing it with aesthetics in mind.

FWIW, the surgery did result in some major improvements in their son's ability to communicate through speech.

Just want to clarify: "mongoloid" and "normal" were QUOTES from the seminar case studies of children having gone through certain procedures. These are not terms I would use myself. Hope I haven't offended.

I realised they were term you had lifted from the info given at the seminar

i think letting your child have an op to improve their speech is a bit different. we all have to do stuff like that. ds has had ops on his ears to make him hear better.
but different imo to just make them look "normal"
wtf is normal anyway.

I think the only people who can really give a fair and proper judgement on this are those with a child with downs syndrome. If it's available and it's right for that particular family then it's down to them.

The only thing I know for certain in thinking about this issue is that if ever the behaviour of MY ds contributed to another child or parent's decision to operate in order to appear more 'normal' then I would feel incredibly sad and ashamed of my parenting.

I heart you Blu. You're just such a lovely person

Gosh TC - Hadn't really 'peeked' before but what a lovely, beautiful family you have.

Bat ear surgery is quite common too though. Tongue surgery for kids with DS is rare but done for necessary reasons as far as I know. I too saw the show with the little chap with ds, who was lovely, but his tongue was a problem for his eating, his speech and also made him stand out more. His parents hated the idea of his having surgery, but this was a medical problem, not just an aesthetic one. I think 'normalisation' surgery should only ever be considered if the adult with ds truly wanted it and really understood its nature.

Oh I think the tounge thing is different. I don't think that is about how the child looks. Having trouble eating and speaking are very good reasons to think hard about surgery.

DD1 has the most wonderful bat ears. They are fab. They literally grow out fromt he side of her head and are really low set. I think they are adorable

Oh sorry meant to say thank you Tiredemma, how kind of you to say

thomcat and geekgirl, your dc are really really gorgeous. I like the piano one (gg) & the long wavy hair (tc). cannot imagine chosing to go down cosmetic surgery for any of my children for any reason. even eg eye surgery. I have v. poor eyesight, poor old ds1 & ds3 have this. They are constantly breaking glasses (they are after all litle boys ) I just wouldn't consider eye surgery, for myself or them (when they're older, obv.) because any risk is just too much risk, no matter how annoying or eypensive the glasses are.

btw in Switzerland Mongoloid, Mongolism etc is still commonly used by gynaecologists, it's been used here in Germany too, but only been here 5 minutes, so dunno if it's as standard. Don't worry OP, I think it was very clearly not your words