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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

I have just shouted at friend who self harms...I feel such a twat!!!!

52 replies

needtoask · 14/10/2008 22:46

i am regular with a name change and not a troll
here goes.....
she is the most adorable person you could ever meet

I love her and we have been friends for years
but she is a compulsive attention seeker
lately the self harming has resulted in myself blowing my top with her and saying what i think

I believe in the saying "You have to be cruel to be kind"

but I feel such a twat

pls dont pounce on me, I really want to do whats best for her

thanks for reading this

OP posts:
Original poster
needtoask · 15/10/2008 07:34

we are meeting for coffee this morning, i will let you know how it goes

I have not had a great deal of experience with SH (only my neice years ago but my sis took her to the gp)

i will urge her toget the prof help she needs

thanks again for your replies

OP posts:
bellavita · 15/10/2008 07:36

needtoask - I saw this thread last night, but did not reply as I really did not know what to say.

Just wanted to send you some best wishes, strength and good vibes for this morning.

hammouhouseofhorror · 15/10/2008 07:48

needtask I have experience of someone who self harms and she has had a lot of support...now she gets beautiful tattoes instead, is your friend the kind or person that would consider this..obviously not to everybodies taste.

You are certainly not a bad friend, it is a horrible experience and made me feel so impotent, nothing in life gave me the words to help her. Now my son (10) has started a little and I am terrified for him.

I hope the coffee goes well....lots of support

solidgoldskullonastick · 15/10/2008 09:54

ANother possible source of help: are her problems linked to her menstrual cycle? Because one of my self-harming mates who also had horrendous PMT and very painful periods was helped quite a lot by acupuncture. (This may be a sort of placebo-effect thing but if it works...)

wannaBe · 15/10/2008 10:06

I think what you?re feeling/thinking is perfectly normal.

Imo one of the things about any mental illness is that there is this unwritten rule that you can never hold the sufferer responsible in any way because they cannot help what they are going through. But the fact is that it?s not just the sufferer of mental illness who is the victim, their family and fclose friends are also victims, but they?re expected to not speak out.

I have a friend whose depression has destroyed her family, and right now I want to slap her and tell her that she needs to look around her and see what she is doing to them. I want to tell her dh, who would move heaven and earth for her, to leave her because he deserves so much better than the way she has treated him, and to take their daughter away from growing up with a mother who has spent her life in and out of psychiatric hospitals.

I would of course never do or say any of these things. But it doesn?t stop me thinking them, or being angry at her for the hurt she has caused to those people around her that have done everything in their power to help her.

It?s natural for understanding to boil over into anger imo.

Witchka · 15/10/2008 11:15

Wannabe - you wouldn't say that about a cancer patient would you. Mental illness is an illness just like cancer you know. Both are bad for the sufferers families too.

snowleopard · 15/10/2008 12:53

I don't agree witchka. One of the very difficult things about mental illnesses - or some of them - is that there does need to be a recognition of it and a certain attitude from the sufferer, in order for them to overcome it - which is not like cancer, flu or a broken leg. Things like self-harming and alcoholism are illnesses, but a large part of the cure is to do with the sufferer's attitude and efforts. At the same time, depressive and addicitive behaviours are characterised by very selfish behaviour. I do actually think that one of the best approaches when dealing with someone close to you with a problem like this, is to insist on a basic standard of decency and respectfulness - and I do speak from experience.

Obviously blowing your top is not great, but it can happen when people tiptoe around the mentally ill until they can bear their behaviour no longer. It is better to think of your own needs and make clear to the ill person what you can and cannot handle. That helps them maintain their link to normal life and expectations.

solidgoldskullonastick · 15/10/2008 13:05

Well people who are very close to terminally ill or otherwise suffering people, often suffer themselves because they feel that their needs and wishes are secondary to that of the ill person (and someone who was a self-obsesssed PITA before the accident/diagnosis/whatever is likely to get worse instead of better when in pain) and they must never complain and always indulge every whim. That's why its important for the family/carers of the physically or mentally sick to get plenty of time away from them.

TinkerBellesMum · 15/10/2008 13:21

I agree with snowleopard and dittany.

I get so cross that people think it's their place to "help" someone with mental health problems whilst simultaneously forgetting that it is an illness as much as anything else. I hate being given "advice" about how to get better, want to offer me advice on how to lower my antibody levels as well? My mental health is as much an illness as my autoimmune disease and unless someone is willing to "help" with that, I'm not willing to let them help with my mental health. And why is it that doctors and nurses never seem to know what they're doing? I would prefer their advice to that of someone who just has to give their own tuppence and tell you that your professionals are talking rubbish.

ScottishMummy · 15/10/2008 16:20

theSuburbanDryad - mantal health act Ax
If you are in danger of harming yourself or others and you are refusing treatment, an emergency assessment may be necessary. This is when two doctors and an approved social worker ASW (a social worker who is specially trained in mental health) make the assessment. This may lead to admitting you to hospital against your will, under the Mental Health Act 1983. 'being sectioned'.

main ways of having an emergency assessment:

by going to the accident and emergency (A&E) department at a local hospital.psych liaision nurse can screen and ax and psych registrar. most large A&E have this facility

by telephoning the emergency duty number social services

if the police take you from home to a "place of safety"

if in a public place there police can remove you from there.take you to "place of safety" for Ax

wannaBe · 15/10/2008 16:41

terminal illness is nothing like mental illness though. If you have a terminal illness then getting better is only down to treatment. It doesn't matter how much you want to get better, if the treatment doesn't work then you will still die.

With mental illness you can work to get better. If you are an alcoholic then you choose to drink. Yes it is an addiction and a compulsion but ultimately it is you who picks up the bottle, or the knife to self harm, etc.

yes of course one should have sympathy with those with mental illnes, but ultimately the attitude of the person who is ill is what will contribute to them bither getting better or not.

My friend's actions have meant that they might lose their home, that they are in so much debt that bankrupcy is potentially their only option. She has been violent in the past and has been sectioned more than once. Do I have sympathy with her? of course I do, but if her dh decided to leave her then I wouldn't blame him.

Original poster
needtoask · 15/10/2008 19:43

hi all
thanks for replies

Coffee went ok

I apologized for my actions, shote seems to be more worried about the way this is going to effect our friendship rather than helping herself and getting the help she needs

I have urged her to get help but I dont feel that that part sunk in iyswim

Her words "Honestly I am fine and I can stop doing this to myself"

I think I may need time out for a few days

your opinions are really interesting
Mental health is not something that I have experienced apart from PND with myself (but I did not SH or felt that low and depressed I wanted to end my life) and I was so self absorbed I did not see this from an outsiders point of veiw

OP posts:
nooOOOoonki · 15/10/2008 20:04

Wannabe - I take it that you have never been mentally ill-

Of course you can do things to make your mental health worse (drugs/alcohol/bad relationships/poor food etc)

and you can do things to make you better (healthy lifestyle, ADs, etc)

but for some mental illnesses these will not work at all. I was diagnosed as bipolar as a teenager and was very ill, but did not choose to spend 4 lovely months locked up in mental hospital and I assure you my attitude had nothing to do with... as it didn't my mother or grandmother, my Aunt... oh yeah it's genetic

TinkerBellesMum · 15/10/2008 20:12

Well said noo

I've said it before on MN, for me not harming is keeping some control over something I can't do anything about. I have BPD and if I hadn't kept some control I know there are many times I would have harmed, but most areas of my life that are affected by BPD I can't control. I don't even realise when I'm getting aggressive and angry, and try as I might I can't make myself feel anything, even with physical pain, I can feel it but I'm separate from it.

The worst thing about not being a harmer is no one takes you seriously if you don't. My SIL took a small OD once and had loads of help. According to my NT it's not that unusual for people to not harm themselves.

nooOOOoonki · 15/10/2008 20:13

Needtoask - you are being a good friend it is really hard to know what to do, I think keep talking

I had a similar sit. with a friend who kept overdosing on paracetomal (she did about 40 times- she never took too many, though god knows what long term damage she has done. She only told me and her husband, I found it very hard and just kind of ignored her as she told me about it everytime.

She was very aware that she wanted attention but this ws because she was in trauma (terrible childhood), I spoke to her about everything else, her depression, her childhood, her life but ignored the overdoses. As I felt that by giving her attention for them that it would justify waht she was doing. Instead I gaveher loads of attention for going to the Gp/counsellor/talking about her depression/taking ADs ie - things that I view as positive.

Hope that makes sense

nooOOOoonki · 15/10/2008 20:19

Tinks - well done on keeping it in control, very hard, you are so right that sometimes it is the only way you get attention (from medical profession/friends/family) and that is so wrong.

glad to hear you are doing well

NotDoingTheHousework · 15/10/2008 20:27

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ScottishMummy · 15/10/2008 20:31

mental illness has a physical biochemical basis eg depression,impaired serotonin receptor uptake in depression.

individuals with depression have decreased levels of serotonin, norepinephrine and dopamine, and genetic 5HTT link. a biochemical basis in the same way dabetes is impaired insulin production

my point is it isnt all about positive attitude and pull yourself together snap out of it

Original poster
needtoask · 15/10/2008 20:38

Reading other peoples experiences about there own experiences of SH and depression makes me feel such a bigger twat for shouting at her

I know I cant turn back what I have done but I think that shouting was more my release, maybe my shouting at her has been totally unecessary

OP posts:
ScottishMummy · 15/10/2008 20:44

oh not necessarily she is an adult exhibiting inappropriate behaviour.showing you lacertaion.

understandably you reacted
we all have limits

acknowledge to her it was painful for you too

Original poster
needtoask · 15/10/2008 20:47

so many wise and honest MNetters around

OP posts:
NotDoingTheHousework · 15/10/2008 20:50

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JodieO · 15/10/2008 20:57

Personally speaking, if somoene was horrible to me then it made me feel worse, not that that would be the other person's fault in any way but that was how I reacted. I was very sensitive about what people thought and said about and to me.

Everyone has a different experience though. I think you're dealing with it well and doing your best to help your friend. It's hard to know what to do or say especially when every case is individual.

totalmisfit · 15/10/2008 21:17

your friend is wrong and right.

wrong because she is definitely not fine.

Right because she CAN stop.

Having suffered from depression, OCD and anxiety in the past, I knew all along that i could feel differently. It was only ever a matter of finding a way. That glimmer of hope is almost always there but it takes whatever tiny amount of motivation you can muster. And only you have the power to grasp it, and hold on to it.

TinkerBellesMum · 15/10/2008 21:18

Thanks Nooo, being pregnant is a great help, I don't think I've felt so good in my life until I was pregnant (that's with everything I've been through with pregnancy, but then as I said I'm pretty cut off from my feelings).

ScottishMummy thanks for posting that. I'm sure it's how a lot of people see mental illness still in the 21stC.