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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AGGGHHHH.. Families and Money.... long..

42 replies

HamsterWheel · 10/10/2008 21:37

I have one sibling, a brother. Parents are divorced and mum got quite a bit of cash as settlement. mumhas quite a few problems health wise (mainly mental tbh)
I have been thinking of investing some of her money for her. I wanted to buy a property. (not in UK)for her. She wouldn't get a mortgage as she doesn't work and to buy outright wouldn't leave her with enough of a liquid safety net.
I have seen some opportunities where she would pay the deposit/fees herself, then I get a mortgage in our name, let property and rent covers mortgage with anice profit on top.

still there?
i spke to my mother earlier on phone , and asked if she'd spoken to DB recently, and she went a bit quiet and err, err - 'well I told him about the apartment business, and well, I wasn't going to tell you, but he thinks you're robbing me'

this is the AIBU bit as I then fired offa text outlining my plans as above followed by 'Please let me know what part of the above constitutes robbing my mother/'

he replied making adig about my job and suggesting who to believe (as my mother is an alcoholic) I replied 'as long as we are clear, as its rather a rude assumption to make'
He's gone ballistic. he's acontolling type of personality with a chip on his shoulder. i have chosen my words carefully on my texts and he doesn't like it.
I am texting btw as it costs me a pound a minute to call.

It would appear also that my darling mother has also betrayed me by telling him that she lent us money for the deposit on our house. He is 'demanding to know how much and on what terms.'

WIBU to send the first text -?
I am absolutely gutted as, for all my faults, I am a genuine, honest person - i do nothing to the detriment of my mother. In fact, with her behaviour, looking after her is to the detriment of me.

Me and dh knew he would find out about the deposit and this would be his reaction. How sad. No matter how educated you are, and how close to your family, get money involved and peoples head turns? I'm not like that at all.
Am so sad.

OP posts:
Original poster
HamsterWheel · 10/10/2008 21:38

oh god, so long! sorry. (if anyone even reads)

OP posts:
herbietea · 10/10/2008 21:40

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Original poster
HamsterWheel · 10/10/2008 21:42

I do, I really do.
I am so sad as its not like he's accusing me of spilling his pint - If somebody really was accusing me of wrong doing like this, I'm not sure I can speak to him the same again.

OP posts:
bellabelly · 10/10/2008 21:50

Going to play devil's advocate here and say if it is all so above board, why didn't you talk to him about either of these issues? Not accusing you of anything, just try and see where he's coming from - for all he knows (because you haven't mentioned to him), you might be trying to do something v dodgy!

mrsruffallo · 10/10/2008 21:51

It's a shame he has reacted like this.
He sounds irrational-is he jealous of your closenes to your mother?

Original poster
HamsterWheel · 10/10/2008 21:57

BB - there is no reason for him to know is there?
Obviously, if I do/had bought a property for her, I would have told him - why not?
But my house deposit has nothing to do with him?

He might be jealous yes - my dad told me that his car is knackered.
I haven't done anything untoward. I am paying my mother back with 5% interest and in full in one year.
I am pissed atht I have to justify this.

OP posts:
veraduckworthshandbag · 10/10/2008 22:01

Let your dickhead brother take care of your alkie mother and wash your hands of both of them.

You sound like a good person and you are trying to help your mother and being shit on from a great hight for trying.

Walk away walk away

Original poster
HamsterWheel · 10/10/2008 22:07

Vera - are you my dad?

i am sad because we have both been shit on by the hassle we have had with our mother going on many years.
My own marriage isn't much cop, and family wise - he's all I've got.
He takes his frustrations out on me.
Who do I take mine out on?

If, in the cold light of day, he is insinuating i'm doing something wrong, i won't speak to him again.

OP posts:
wehaveallbeenthere · 10/10/2008 22:07

HW, are you in the state of NE? While every family problem is unique you sound amazingly like my sister.
My mother is an alcoholic and my sister and older brother are in a battle because she wants to rule the bank book.
We have all known all the money my sister has "borrowed" from my parents when my father was alive and how she has coerced her into even more money that hasn't been paid back.
In all honesty, putting your mothers assets into your name isn't really looking into her interests but your own. Just my perception because you said yourself she isn't able to do this for herself.
We have actually had to have my mothers will put into a state of three out of the four siblings must agree before her living arrangements were to change as my sister wants to move her to a home.
I don't know where your brother is coming from as I've only heard your side but know every coin has 2 sides.
Your mother needs an attorney and someone that isn't involved financially to put her interests into perspective for her future. Again, just my opinion.

Quattrocento · 10/10/2008 22:13

YABU, sorry

See I believe in treating my DCs absolutely equally. So if I lent one child money for a deposit I would feel honour bound to lend the other one money as well. It seems utterly absurd to me that your mother lent you money without doing the same for your brother and then you conspire to keep it secret. How do you expect him to feel?

Now this property arrangement. You say

"I have seen some opportunities where she would pay the deposit/fees herself, then I get a mortgage in our name, let property and rent covers mortgage with anice profit on top"

Given that you could only get a mortgage on the property if it is in your name, what you are effectively suggesting is that your mother give you another chunk of cash.

If you were being open and above board about it, you would have done it jointly with your brother. It's just another hole in the corner arrangement. I hope it is not done with the intention of doing your brother out of any money ultimately.

So, erm yes. Entirely unreasonable.

Original poster
HamsterWheel · 10/10/2008 22:31

Quattro - How on earth is it absurd/
We asked my mother to help us with our house deposit?
if my brother asked her for anything he would get it -
My Mother is as fair as you are in this thinking, - by the same token,

I can't see my mum earning a living again and she isn't that old. I can just see cash going through her fingers through the years - she can't get a mortgage, but can afford deposit and re-payments. This is the ONLY reason i would be involved.

WHABT - her assetts aren't in my name - never will be!
honestly guys, maybe I'm being incredibly naive here -

OP posts:
Quattrocento · 10/10/2008 22:34

Three questions:

  1. Why the secrecy about the deposit?
  2. Why the secrecy about the financial arrangement?
  3. How are you able to get a mortgage on a property that is not in your name?
Nighbynight · 10/10/2008 22:35

Hamster - its in your OP, you suggested gettig a mortgage in your name, which means your name would be on the deed of the house.

did you mean a mortgage guaranteed by you - v different!

Original poster
HamsterWheel · 10/10/2008 22:39
  1. we entered into a loan agreement (in writing) with my mother. Whose else business is this/
  1. Don't understand thsi - there is no secrecy or any other financial arrangement. I don't speak to my brother that much (once a month maybe) and this property opportunity came up this week literally. Absolutely would have told him OUR (mine and mums) plans, just as she did earlier , next time we spoke.
  1. property transaction would be in my name, initially, would have to be ref; mortgage, then legally transferred to her. don't forget, all mortgage onus still on us 'till day it's paid off.

Hope this is clear - its very late here

OP posts:
Original poster
HamsterWheel · 10/10/2008 22:40

NBN - yes! I guess that's what I mean! i think!

OP posts:
KatieDD · 10/10/2008 22:49

Does he need money is that the problem ?
People should treat their children equally but the truth is they give to the one who needs it.
Am so glad DH is an only and my parents have no money, keeps things simple.

Quattrocento · 10/10/2008 22:51

Okay well my last post on this subject

You have said that your mother has issues therefore she may not be legally competent.

  1. Re the deposit. If you can't see why it is your brother's business as well as yours and your mothers, then that is disappointing.
  1. Re the secrecy on the new financial arrangement. It is entirely wrong for you to be making these sort of arrangements without your brother's knowledge.
  1. Re the house being in your name. FGS can you not see what financial effect that has on your brother? What you are suggesting is entirely inappropriate. Why could you not be open and above board and involve him? Perhaps as co-owner?

As for threats of not speaking to your brother, you are bloody lucky that he is still speaking to you.

I find this thread sad and upsetting and hope to goodness my children don't behave to one another as you have done.

Original poster
HamsterWheel · 10/10/2008 22:51

Just read my OP back and I need to clarify that I want to help my mum invest in property by getting/guaranteeing a mortgage in MY name, whilst then transferring deeds to her and all asetts and rental profits are very much hers.

OP posts:
Original poster
HamsterWheel · 10/10/2008 22:55

Quattro -
I am along, long time member of Mn and have to say that I wish i never started this thread.

God - I am naive, thats my crime - beleive what you will

OP posts:
wehaveallbeenthere · 10/10/2008 23:06

HM no one is judging you. We are just giving you our perspective. If I were to lie to you I'd say Oh! Sounds like you are doing the right thing. Sorry. I spoke what I thought from a very, very similar background. You can take it for what you will but as you've been a Mner for quite some time you know that when you post you are going to get opinions from others. Personally, I hope things work out for all of you, especially your mother.

ivykaty44 · 10/10/2008 23:07

If your mother can afford a deposit and she can afford the repayments then she would be able to get a loan/mortgage.

If the cash goes through your mothers fingers then thats as maybe it is her money to let go through fingers, sad as that maybe it is not your life.

If you and your brother are concerned about her finances then together you should sit down and decide what should be done re the finances (the mental illness may mean you both take charge of her finances to protect her). BUT this needs to be decided by both of you together otherwise you will cause distrust (regerdless of how honest you are or genuine you must see that your brother has some respect and be included in these desissions)

I would be annoyed if my brother was making plans for my mothers money and hadn't asked me, I would then wonder why he hadn't asked me and then I would wonder if he was trying to hide something.

Hope this makes sense to you and hope you can see how things appear from another side.

Hopefully you can sort this situation out and start again and do things to help your mother together.

Flibbertyjibbet · 10/10/2008 23:07

I have been thinking of investing some of her money for her.
I wanted to buy a property.
I have seen some opportunities where she would pay the deposit/fees herself,
I get a mortgage in our name, let property and rent covers mortgage with anice profit on top.

Can I see why your brother is upset? Oh absolutely.

If you are so keen to invest for your mother then you look at other opportunities that are in her name and stay in her name. And you discuss it all openly with your brother.

At what stage are you thinking of transferring the property back to her? When its paid off, just after the sale (which will probably mean the lender wants the mortgage paid off before the property is transferred to anyone else).
How will she get these rental profits if everything is in your name? Via your bank account?

Naive is a bit of an understatement for thinking your brother would be completely unconcerned at you borrowing from your mother and then suggesting that she hands over more capital for something that will be in your name.

If I was your brother then sorry but I'd probably tell my mother not to proceed as well.

ChukkyPig · 10/10/2008 23:15

Hamster I really think that now is not the time to be investing money in property abroad, when markets are volatile and potentially it could all go v wrong.

Hold your horses and get a property here in the UK where at least you can keep an eye on it and manage it yourself, and you know the market and locality.

Consider doing it with your bro or discussing it with him first as I have to say on the face of it what you are suggesting at the mo sounds a bit odd to say the least - I can't work out who owns what and what's in it for who.

Original poster
HamsterWheel · 10/10/2008 23:17

WHABT - absolutely! where else can I post and get some educated answers!
Think I am sad, because every time I read my posts back , they are read as clear as mud and my intentions are as transparent too.
IK & FJ. i haven't made this clear AT ALL.
i wouldn't be buying a property for anybody but her benefit - in fact I'm the one at risk with the mortgage onus.
I didn't realise that I may have to have mortgage payments paid off before I transfer deeds.
I would transfer Deeds immediately.
I don't think she will get a mortgage as she has no income.

naive, becuae as i would happily swear on the bible that all of my intentions are honourable, I am now appreciating that to outsiders, i guess including DB, it may not look that way, but then that's me, as usual , clear as mud.

OP posts:
Original poster
HamsterWheel · 10/10/2008 23:21

Chukky, thanks,
I live ina region with a most unique property market to say the least, quite incomparable to anywhere in the West,
But of course, no where is recssion proof.

FWIW, to clarify !
I would like my mother to invest in a small property, I will have to take a mortgage out and be the guarantor. All cash paid on deposits and mortgage would be hers. deeds would be in her name.
All assetss and profits will be hers.
money willl be going OUT of my account! (not in) - she'd pay me back from her rental income.

OP posts: