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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

AGGGHHHH.. Families and Money.... long..

42 replies

HamsterWheel · 10/10/2008 21:37

I have one sibling, a brother. Parents are divorced and mum got quite a bit of cash as settlement. mumhas quite a few problems health wise (mainly mental tbh)
I have been thinking of investing some of her money for her. I wanted to buy a property. (not in UK)for her. She wouldn't get a mortgage as she doesn't work and to buy outright wouldn't leave her with enough of a liquid safety net.
I have seen some opportunities where she would pay the deposit/fees herself, then I get a mortgage in our name, let property and rent covers mortgage with anice profit on top.

still there?
i spke to my mother earlier on phone , and asked if she'd spoken to DB recently, and she went a bit quiet and err, err - 'well I told him about the apartment business, and well, I wasn't going to tell you, but he thinks you're robbing me'

this is the AIBU bit as I then fired offa text outlining my plans as above followed by 'Please let me know what part of the above constitutes robbing my mother/'

he replied making adig about my job and suggesting who to believe (as my mother is an alcoholic) I replied 'as long as we are clear, as its rather a rude assumption to make'
He's gone ballistic. he's acontolling type of personality with a chip on his shoulder. i have chosen my words carefully on my texts and he doesn't like it.
I am texting btw as it costs me a pound a minute to call.

It would appear also that my darling mother has also betrayed me by telling him that she lent us money for the deposit on our house. He is 'demanding to know how much and on what terms.'

WIBU to send the first text -?
I am absolutely gutted as, for all my faults, I am a genuine, honest person - i do nothing to the detriment of my mother. In fact, with her behaviour, looking after her is to the detriment of me.

Me and dh knew he would find out about the deposit and this would be his reaction. How sad. No matter how educated you are, and how close to your family, get money involved and peoples head turns? I'm not like that at all.
Am so sad.

OP posts:

bellabelly · 10/10/2008 23:21

Just came back to this thread - you've clarified a bit since your op BUT

BB - there is no reason for him to know is there?
"But my house deposit has nothing to do with him?"
Well it does because it could affect his future inheritance.

"I haven't done anything untoward. I am paying my mother back with 5% interest and in full in one year."
But he doesn't know any of this, des he - because you haven't discussed it with him. He's perhaps concerned to protect your mum's(and his own future) financial interests.

I CAN see why you might be hurt but I do think that he has every right to be asking questions about all of this. If you decide to stop speaking to him as a result then I think you are behaving really badly.

ChukkyPig · 10/10/2008 23:24

Hamster the more I think about this the more I think that at the mo it is an appalling idea. BTL mortgages are way expensive now and things are looking to get worse. My view is that people with large amounts of disposable cash could do well by waiting for property crash and snapping up some cheap property. But borrowing on a new mortgage at the moment, especially a BTL one, is not a clever move.

Incidentally, if your mum has a chunk of cash the prority at the moment needs to be to make sure it is not all in one place - spread it around up to £50K in any one institution. If she is not quite with it this might take quite some organising and frankly I'd put investements on the backburner for now and have a rethink.

Quattrocento · 10/10/2008 23:24

You don't seem to have a very clear idea about buying property HW.

The options that are available to you are as follows (as one poster has stated).

You own the house and the mortgage liability

Your mother owns the house and the mortgage liability and you guarantee the mortgage should she be unable to meet it.

AFAIK, there is no halfway house whereby you can remain liable for the mortgage yet your mother own the property.

By the way it can be quite difficult to get a mortgage on a property abroad. It took us 4 months to get vetted in France. They need proof of earnings and all the rest. I did not find a single lender in the UK who was prepared to lend money against a French property.

ChukkyPig · 10/10/2008 23:27

Oh sorry hamster - when you say abroad it's way abroad! If your mum is in UK though (?) you still need to make sure her cash is spread around...

Personally I can understand why your bro is miffed and think a rethink could be in order...

Original poster

HamsterWheel · 10/10/2008 23:31

Quattro. -
It would be number 2.
No, i don't have mortgage expeience in this situation.
I am not in the uk
getting a mortgage and the paperwork etc isn't a problem . my DH is a snr. manager with a large bank. Although, out here, on some developments, you can only use certain lenders.
It wouldn't be a BTL mortgage.

Bella - i am getting caught up in the fact that I know my intentions are good - you are right, But I would be SO hurt that he would think this way of me - we are actually close, just livin half way around the world from each other

OP posts:

Original poster

HamsterWheel · 10/10/2008 23:34

my DH is a banker - all monies safely dispersed!

OP posts:

ChukkyPig · 10/10/2008 23:41

Will you be managing the property as well - or will you pay a company to do it and get references from tenants collect rent etc - don't forget that if you go down the full managed route that is a fair chunk of your income from the property.

Don't forget to factor a possible period of no rental income into your calcs.

Or is it all different where you are in the world?

I really think your brother has a point though - you want to use most of your mum's cash to buy a property down the road from you which you have control over - insofar as you are on the scene and he is not. He only has your word that it is a fab investment which will pay for itself etc - which I'm sure you believe - but he's taking a punt on the safety of his mum's money in a property in a country he's not familiar with and has no guarantee it will get let etc. I'm sure you know what you're doing but I really can see his point.

Flibbertyjibbet · 10/10/2008 23:45

If I was your brother I'd be really annoyed at you and your bank manager husband planning all this without any input from me.

It would be a buy to let mortgage - because you are buying a property to let it.

One minute you say that your mother can't get a mortgage, then you say that she will get a mortgage with you as guarantor.
One minute you will transfer the deeds, next thing she will own the house.

Your muddled answers suggest that you haven't really given it much thought. Go away and think about it and then discuss it with your brother, (who will have your mothers interests at heart as much as you) not your banker husband.

Er, if your husband is such a great bank manager and mortgages for your mother will be so easy to get, then how come you had to borrow your deposit off your mother

Original poster

HamsterWheel · 10/10/2008 23:48

well, to be honest, its just not worth the hassle really is it?

BTW - looked at mgt. agents and there is one that takes 25% for short lets! was stunned
did all the calcs 'till my fingers were sore.
i t wasn't about anything else other than opportunity for a small income for her.

Thinking about it - maybe she didn't explain it to him properly, and thats why he got the wrong end of stick, or maybe she was pissed and doesn't really know what was said - i've gone off on one because I was mortified at being thought as untoward.
Gotta go to bed, its 2.30. What acrap wekkend this is. night all, and all replies appreciated

OP posts:

KatieDD · 10/10/2008 23:53

This is all about lack of communication and by the sounds of it your mother doesn't really understand what you want her to do either.
I'd either sit down and talk face to face but at worse on the telephone with your brother and go through it all.
Or butt out of your mothers finances until they become yours then you can invest in whatever you like.

Original poster

HamsterWheel · 10/10/2008 23:54

FJ - have just read your last post.
to clarify;

my husband actually has nothing to do with any of this, thanks, he hasn't dispensed any advice or had any input, it's been between me and her.

buy to let mortgages don't exist in this country.

I am not sure of all the terms regarding mortgages, its something I've never done in this way before. my own mortgage is joint and was avery simple procedure.

Just wanted her to own a property. She doesn't have an income, so don't think she'd get amortgae herself.

You can put your trolldar away.
Commenting on my hubbys career skills is not necessary either

OP posts:

Original poster

HamsterWheel · 10/10/2008 23:58

Just re-read your last comment FJ

We needed a 25% deposit to buy our house in april, we weren't anticipating this, we didn't quite have enough cash- it wasn't ALL the deposit - a very small chunk actually.
can't believe I've responded to an internet strangers comments on my personal finances

OP posts:

ChukkyPig · 11/10/2008 00:06

Does she own her own property? Sounds like maybe not - in which case paying off her own mortgage would be first thing to do.

TBH if you just want a regular income for her why not put the lump sum (or parts of it if it's lots) in one of those fixed rate savings accounts where you get the interest paid monthly to a linked current account. In the current climate this is probably safer than houses and will give your mum the income which keeping the capital tied up and non-fritterable.

Having said that it is her money and really she should do what she wants with it - maybe she said your bro didn't approve as actually she doesn't want to do it and it's easier that way? i know that sort of thing goes on in my dad's family - people always say another family member isn't happy with something rather than saying no themselves.

Quattrocento · 11/10/2008 00:09

I might take issue with you over a bank account being safer than houses ...

The safest thing of all is big gold bars. Buy them now and stick them under a mattress.

Original poster

HamsterWheel · 11/10/2008 00:10

Thats where the money is.
She knows that her money can work harder for her. The whole idea is actaully a very simple one and I was more surprised that she was interested - not remotelt a 'risk' taker, which is why I would never suggest anything that was remotely, to my mind, risky.

the property market here i smy 'hobby' sad, I know, I don't get out much! I should be an agent.
Def. to bed.

OP posts:

Original poster

HamsterWheel · 11/10/2008 00:12

Quattro - thats exectly what I told my dad on the 'phone tonight,
I think also that most people in this part of the world would agree, but they've been pushing the price up for months now!

Also feel that if Dh employers go tits up, i wouldn't worry about money, i'd just buy a gun and head for the hills as then, its true - anything could happen...

OP posts:

ChukkyPig · 11/10/2008 00:32

Hmm quattro now surely is not the time to buy gold - haven't we missed the boat on that one?

If I had the money I'd still buy property - but only near where I live - as I know the market a bit. In london, if you buy on a downturn, you're unlikely to lose in the long run. I hope!

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