to "tell off" a woman who spoke harshly to dd?

[canofworms]

We were in a coffee shop today and dd had her chair with the back against another table.

I hadn't noticed but she kept pushing her feet against the table and knocking her chair into this woman's table.

The 3rd time she did it the woman became irate (as you would) but put her hand in dd's face and told her in a rather loud/irritated/nasty voice to stop doing it as she couldn't concentrate reading her paper and pointed out it was the 3rd time she'd done it.

My dh was sat next to her and apologised and said he'd told her off for doing it as well.

But I was so irritated that she was so horrible to a young child that on the way out I put my face in hers and said if she had an issue with a young child to either raise it with the parents instead or be a bit nicer about it. She was pretty shitty back but I ignored her and walked out.

Now dd was in the wrong and annoying but surely that's for us to sort out, no to scare her so much?!

[MorrisZapp]

I don't have kids and often find other people's kids really irritating in public (sorry).

I've had words many times with my sister, who seems to think that it's OK to curl up in Starbucks and enjoy a peaceful coffee while the staff and other customers take their chances with her unruly daughter running around the place and generally getting under people's feet.

I don't allow it, I'm an auntie with disciplining rights and my god I use them. Nobody should have to put up with being bothered by other people's kids - their parents should either make sure they behave, or wait until the kids are old enough to sit nicely before taking them to cafes etc.

Starbucks didn't exist in my own childhood and we were fine without it!

These threads often seem to be along the lines of 'My child was in the wrong but the annoyed adult was way over the top and very rude'.... ok, I can't prove anything either way but I am left wondering exactly how rude and horrible these adults were.

Many people of my own aquaintance simply don't accept anybody speaking to their kids, 'end of', no debate.

[wittyusername]

!But aggressive finger wagging in a child's face accompanied by unpleasant tone = gloves off response from me!"

HMC - I must say though I do agree with you that's not on.

[scaredregular]

you were not bu

[pickupthismess]

I have two little boys and though they are darlings (obviously ) I know they can be a complete pain in the a**e at times. But.... I do try to make sure they are told off/told to stop it when appropriate and I watch them.

I can remember only too well what it's like to have no kids and for others people's children to be causing havoc. But it is the parent's fault on the whole.

Recently I was in Sainsburys and these two girls (about 6&8) were running up and down the isles riding on trolleys and banging into anyone in their way. They though thtis was a riot. When they hit me I politely said 'be careful', next time they absolutely smacked into me . I gave them a good dressing down. They went running to their mummy who had been idly looking at yoghurts. She turned with a face like thunder but I stared her out and she said nothing. Loads of people whispered their 'congratulations for sorting them out'. In retrospect I should have really had a word with their mother but I don't think she'd have done v much at all.

[Liffey]

Yes Abbey, I would only ever use that sarcastic comment if I thought somebody was annoyed merely by my children's presence!

They are brats at the moment, it's true, I'm working on it.

But I am always completely mortified if they upset another adult and apologise on their behalf. Luckily, my children are at least shcoked into behaving if another adult tells them off! So sometimes, if somebody was giving my dc a look for say standing on their chair, and I am saying 'get down or I won't let you watch charlie and lola, get down now, well if you don't care about missing charlie and lola I will put you to bed ten minutes earlier" and I am being ignored by my children, sometimes I would actually WELCOME a couple of sternish words from another adult! I know it's nobody else's job to control my children though. Hope this makes some sense.

[suzannejarv]

morriszapp - just a question - why are you on mumsnet if you are not a parent? I'm not being aggressive, just genuinely interested why anyone without children would frequent a parenting forum?

[Liffey]

Can't answer for morris, but there are lots of boards about ttc here Suzanne. Many years ago I looked on babycentre when I was thinking about babies!

[suzannejarv]

maybe that's it then. but also am surprised at the 'knowledge' people without children have about how to parent children. A friend of mine without children said that she couldn't understand women who couldn't breastfeed as it was human nature, that as a single parent I should hire some nanny for a fortnight each year so I could go on holiday alone (despite lack of funds, and wanting to spend my time off from work with my kids), and that there were far more important things in life than worrying about my children's education.

[Trafficcone]

If the child was 7 I'd have spoken directly to the child not the parent. A 7 year old kicking someones chair isn't the actions of a bored toddler who doesn't know any better, it's utterly uncalled for and like that woman I'd have been pretty darn pee'd off!
I'd not have touched the childs face as I think you said she did, but I would have said in a very firm voice "Would you please STOP kicking my chair"
If your child can't behave in public, then don't be surprised when they get told off! I'd be mortified if my 7 yr old was kicking the backs of peoples chairs instead of sitting nicely.

[Liffey]

SJ It's all so easy in theory though, parenting! Somebody else with no children told me my son has a speech delay because we left the children's father. I looked at her stunned for a moment and said "cheers, thanks for that." Think she was a tiny bit embarrassed.

[Blu]

PMSL at 'What would Audrey Hepburn do?'

I shall be adpoting that!

[mytetherisending]

Depends on the age of your dd. If she is pre-school I would have been annoyed but then I would have noticed dd doing it and stopped it. Not because it was irritating but because its dangerous, she could have fallen back off the chair. Sounds like she felt your' dealing with it' wasn't effective and children take more notice of unfamiliar adults.

[mytetherisending]

7!! At that age I would have thanked the lady if my dd was being a brat!

[Kewcumber]

well I know how irratated I get with my own darling precious child when he is doing something relatively innocuous (and bangig against your table/chair repeatedly is for some reason rage-inducingly irritating) = so I can quite see why a child-free punter would get tad more irritable than they should perhaps in an ideal world.

Yes maternal defensiveness would probably kick in and I would feel like telling the old bag to bog off but don;t think it teachies your DC much. Think I would say to DC - "Look you have made that lady very cross now and she was tyring to enjoy a quiet cofee until we disturbed her" = it doesn;t actually say whether said lady was reasonable to be so cross and if necessary could be discussed later hat she was probably being a bit grumpy. ut does recognise that your DD annoyed her.

Am slightly sceptial about the how much she spent comment and the "earning respect" commetns. Are people who spend more entiteld to more of anything (except perhaps more cake) and do we really expect to earn enough respect to drink a cup off coffee in peace and quiet. How exactly do you "earn" that repect

[Liffey]

yes kewcumber, I do that too! In mock hushed tones!

[Kewcumber]

Liffey - I am SUCH a big fan of passive aggression in public it is so hard for people to know how to respond

[Cammelia]

I think if you're in public and your dc annoys a member of the public then member of public does have a "right" to tell your dc off.

Within the boundaries of reason, obviously.

[Word]

A right to tell them off, yes. Harshly, no - a firm voice should suffice.

[Word]

(But using the word PLEASE of course)

[Kewcumber]

personally I am always firm not harsh with DS Never been known to get irritable with DS and speak too sharply to him (no siree, not me). Inconcieveable that somone with less patience and perhaps no children would do so an she should be firmly (but not harshly) publically berated for her inappropriate behaviour

[Cammelia]

Schoolchildren probably get spoken to very firmly every day at school, I doubt its much of a problem for them. I do think parents should get on with the job of parenting their children more than "having a go" at members of the public.

[loobeylou]

this is not so much aimed at the OP as a comment on general attitude to who should discipline kids....

my dad is always going on about the days when if a kid was a pain, the local bobby would clip their ear, or the local shop keeper would tell them off and threaten to tell their mum, or the teacher would tell them off - and when the parents found out about any of this, the kids were in trouble again. probably for bringing the family name into disrepute or summat. times have changed but not all for the better.

Nowadays, too many people will defend their kids over all sorts of behaviours because they want to be the popular guy with their DCs and don't want to/don't know how to take responsibility for poor behaviour. (hence aggressive parents going into schools and siding with their brats over something they don't want to believe happened, or slagging off the school to local paper for taking a firm stance on school uniform/inappropriate hairstyles etc)

My Dh told off a child, calmly and politely, in the park after school for teaching an excessively rude rhyme to our 6 and 3 yr olds - the child in question was 9, old enough to know what they were doing was very wrong, these were full blown swear words that would make a builder blush! Dh just said the kid should know better and please do not say those words to our children. The mother went mad at him and was rude and aggressive herself - huge bad example and message to kid that what it was doing was Ok. When surely she should have agreed and told her kid off - and been mortified about the bad behaviour in public

I think as a general rule if another adult feels the need to comment about your kids behaviour, they are probably right, though obviously there is a way to say things and any form of physical aggression/intimidation is OTT

[handlemecarefully]

"my dad is always going on about the days when if a kid was a pain, the local bobby would clip their ear"

Oh yes, lets go back to those days

Sorry but some of you are fucking barking.

[handlemecarefully]

Might be time for a break - anybody else get that thing when they think half of Mn is on a different planet?

[Kewcumber]

yes hmc - but I'm just not sure which half I'm on - this planet or anther galaxy far far away.

But children don't melt because a stranger shouts it them even if its inappropriate (and tbh it isnt that obvious from the OP whether the woman was being unreasonable or not).