to "tell off" a woman who spoke harshly to dd?

[canofworms]

We were in a coffee shop today and dd had her chair with the back against another table.

I hadn't noticed but she kept pushing her feet against the table and knocking her chair into this woman's table.

The 3rd time she did it the woman became irate (as you would) but put her hand in dd's face and told her in a rather loud/irritated/nasty voice to stop doing it as she couldn't concentrate reading her paper and pointed out it was the 3rd time she'd done it.

My dh was sat next to her and apologised and said he'd told her off for doing it as well.

But I was so irritated that she was so horrible to a young child that on the way out I put my face in hers and said if she had an issue with a young child to either raise it with the parents instead or be a bit nicer about it. She was pretty shitty back but I ignored her and walked out.

Now dd was in the wrong and annoying but surely that's for us to sort out, no to scare her so much?!

[findtheriver]

I agree with AbbeyA. I can see how if I was enjoying a quiet read in a coffee shop, it would be intensely annoying for a child to be pushing their chair into my table. And 7 is not that young - a child should know better at that age. I wouldnt have taken my kids into a coffee shop tbh if I couldnt trust them to behave and stop annoying another customer when told.

But it sounds like the woman was rude and aggressive, and the OP was rude and aggressive back, which I agree is an awful role model for the child.

[Twiglett]

your DH had noticed and already told her off for it and she ignored him and continued?

So one of the parents did know and didn't deal with it adequately

sounds like your child was being a brat and got a good talking to from a stranger and I bet it stopped her because you as parents failed to

[Twiglett]

gets to the part where you say she's 7



ever worse

a 7 year old who bangs into another table in a cafe should not be taken out until she learns how to behave - what a brat!

[Twiglett]

loud voice saying "Stop doing that as I can't concentrate on reading my paper. That's the third time" sounds ok to me

now if she'd said "Will you stop fucking knocking my table you vile child" that would be over the top

but patently only the parent who was there can tell us Honestly what was said

from the OP I can see it being an acceptable admonition even if an irritated tone was used

[Simplysally]

If I'd been the other woman, I'd have changed tables away from the child if they were bumping into my table. Maybe they were bored etc but they have to learn to sit still when adults are drinking coffee or whatever.

I was rarely taken into cafes at that age as my parents did the flask of tea or "you're not thirsty, we'll be home soon" routines (they had 4 children) but if we were taken into anywhere like that then we were given death and destruction threats before we got to the door. We knew one complaint or alleged complaint against us and we'd not set foot in another cafe/restaurant. Seemed to have worked and we're not all traumatised adults now. Perhaps a little intolerant of other people who can't stop their kids from kicking/bumping/touching other people's chairs or whatever (esp on aeroplanes) but a few boundaries never hurt. It sounds like low level rudeness all round tbh.

[Twiglett]

You'd move? Really?

God I wouldn't, as an adult, be chased away from where I'm sitting by the obnoxious behaviour of a child

[fizzpops]

I started a previous post on a similar topic and got some very sensible responses which confirmed in my mind that most people are grateful if you stop dangerous behaviour on the part of their child whether they are there or not but that if they have already started disciplining their child someone else butting in is not acceptable.

This is a slightly different case as we don't know whether your DH made himself heard by the other woman even though you didn't hear him. I think saying something in a kindly but firm way is acceptable to be honest.

I have been in similar situations on trains and planes and sat there and put up with it as I realise it is not always easy to control smaller children but 7 is old enough to understand that she is doing something wrong and stop doing it when told.

Sometimes I think being upset by other people 'interfering' is more a control issue with the parents and a hurt feelings thing on behalf of the child. As well as feeling that there is an implication that you are not doing your job of parenting properly. In the end people will always behave differently, I would like to think I would say something to the parents but would more likely make a general comment to the table (half joking) or just move my chair a little to try and make the point subtley. Bit of a coward here

[Simplysally]

Yes I would as I do have a short patience span at times so it'd better for me to move rather than explode with rage a few moments later. I'd rather move than sit there.

[3littlefrogs]

Just as an aside - any chair kicking by my children always resulted in the immediate removal of their shoes (by me). Problem solved

[AbbeyA]

I wouldn't move! I would have done the same as the woman in question, except that I would have spoken quietly and politely and then I would have expected her parents to enforce it and the DD to take note.

[noonki]

I think she was right to talk to your daughter and not to you,

at 7 she is old enough to be spoken to directly, and it was your daughter who was being annoying,

really she should have asked her politely first then more forcefully if she continued to kick

I think society is getting to worried about telling other people children's off, and that leads to unsupervised children not being told off by adults who see bad behaviour, which leads to more petty crime, social breakdown and the end of civilisation as we know it ...

OK OK !!! but my point is why should she talk through you ?

[Liffey]

OP, I have two children and they're both awful brats . The secret is to just say "I'm so terribly sorry that we're bothering you. Then there's nothing a complainer can really say or do in response.

But I remember what it was like pre-children. If I went into a cafe and there was a child nearby, my radar would be twitching, just waiting to be annoyed! Taht was a bit miserable I suppose, but when you're not used to children, face it, they are annoying!

[Liffey]

The child in question was 7? I take back my comment. You shouldn't be sarcastic, you should be genuinely apologetic. Sorry.

[ToThrottleABlackBird]

YABVU, your dh had already told your dd to stop yet she carried on anyway. I would have been the same as the other woman and told your dd to stop it too. A 7 year old should know better.

[EisAHandbagaHolic]

i am in two minds about this one
on the one hand the woman should have first spoken to the parent and asked politely for their child to stop knocking the table, showing respect and not being agressive...
on the other hand the child is 7 years old and should behave a bit better especially as she had already been told off.
to be totally honest i am more for the woman speaking to the parent first camp!
regardless of what was said, immediately just by moving closer to the child and putting her hand in her face she has presented herself as a rude aggressive and selfish woman!! this itself would have gotten my heckles up and i am more of a lover than a fighter!! she was speaking to a child and for all she knew this child may have had behavioural or learning difficulties and may not have been able to 'help herself'!! i have been in a similar situation with my 2.5 yo dd whilst she was having a tantrum and it really irritates me that some people just look down their noses at you trying to calm a child who is misbehaving for some reason
this particular incident was because my DD wanted to put her hands in to her drink in a cafe and i had said no and taken it away...queue DD crying and starting to ask for the drink back... a man on another table nearby said for god sake woman give the drink back so we can have some peace... queue me (bear in mind tired and lightly frazzled) telling him to be quiet as he was making more noise than my 2 yo!! he did not like this and complained to the manager who came over and asked me to quieten down my child!! (duh what did you think i was trying to do??!!) i have not been back to that particular cafe though...
sometimes if you know your child wont behave well in a certain setting it is best to avoid it as you will only get told off by a spotty 18yo 'manager' or an angry agressive bystander who is only interested in their nice lunch than how others are feeling!!
in that respect YANBU but in the other pay more attention to your DDs behaviour and nip it in the bud before it gwets to the point where a witch woman feels she has to treaten your child to get her to stop misbehaving
xx ei xx

[AbbeyA]

There is something the complainer could say Liffey,I would tell you that if you were sorry you would stop it now. If you weren't going to make them I would give them my best teacher's glare and voice and tell them directly.The shock of a stranger would probably stop them-something you as a parent should be doing. They are brats because you are letting them be brats!

[AbbeyA]

Sorry liffey I didn't read your 2nd comment. I take mine back.

[Twiglett]

BIG difference between a 2 year old (who should have been removed as soon as tantrum started) and a 7 year old .. as you will find out as your child gets older

tantrums in public are fine .. but you remove them to an outside place you don't let it continue in a shop or cafe .. you simply don't .. it shows a lack of consideration for others

am talking NT children here

[OrmIrian]

Your DD was acting inconsiderately. After being asked not to. Your DH was in the wrong for not ensuring that she actually did stop. 7 yrs old is quite old enough to understand what she was doing.

Yes, the other woman was a bit rude but TBH her peaceful cup of coffee was being spoiled by the actions of a child who wasn't being controlled by her parent. It might have been her only peaceful time of the day, her only time off from a busy schedule. Who knows. She should have politely mentioned it to the adult in charge but she didn't. Just as you should have spoken politely to her, rather than overreacting.

Rudeness and intolerance all round, as Custy said. Leaves a nasty taste really.

I have no problem with children in cafes/restaurants, I don't mind a bit of happy noise, but I would take exception to any child who is spoiling my enjoyment of my meal or whatever it was. I don't tolerate that in my children, wouln't tolerate it in others.

[Beetroot]

'Would you mind not doing that please'

is all she had to say and smile.

[MorningTownRide]

I agree Beetroot.

Sometimes your children don't always do what they are told first time. Hmmmm?

This sounds very similar to a post I did.

I was advised to that I was horrible and rude and I should have apologised even though I did everything to keep ds quiet. I admitted being rude but was still mauled my one mnetter.

Now, in these siyuations I try to do what someone on here advised.

I think: "What would Audrey Hepburn do?"

[Bucharest]

I don't think the woman was wrong to react as she did, although, personally, I would have asked the parents to sort the child out.

[wittyusername]

I agree with OrmIrian.

I remember being told off while annoying a man on a plane by banging on the table behind his seat. I stopped, my mum was appreciative and man enjoyed the rest of the flight. No menal scars for me, good result for all.

I really think that parents who are precious about others telling off their progeny is a problem.

[wittyusername]

menal - mental

oops

[handlemecarefully]

'Would you mind not doing that please'

is all she had to say and smile.

• Absolutely Beetroot.

If someone said the aforementioned to my child I would have reinforced the message quite clearly with dd or ds, and apologised sincerely to the other person (as I am sure OP would have done)

But aggressive finger wagging in a child's face accompanied by unpleasant tone = gloves off response from me (and tbh, I think that's the appropriate response since it indicates to the other person that if they intend to ride roughshod over other people they might get very short shrift in return)