to "tell off" a woman who spoke harshly to dd?

[canofworms]

We were in a coffee shop today and dd had her chair with the back against another table.

I hadn't noticed but she kept pushing her feet against the table and knocking her chair into this woman's table.

The 3rd time she did it the woman became irate (as you would) but put her hand in dd's face and told her in a rather loud/irritated/nasty voice to stop doing it as she couldn't concentrate reading her paper and pointed out it was the 3rd time she'd done it.

My dh was sat next to her and apologised and said he'd told her off for doing it as well.

But I was so irritated that she was so horrible to a young child that on the way out I put my face in hers and said if she had an issue with a young child to either raise it with the parents instead or be a bit nicer about it. She was pretty shitty back but I ignored her and walked out.

Now dd was in the wrong and annoying but surely that's for us to sort out, no to scare her so much?!

[canofworms]

Gosh, can't believe this thread still going!

It was a strange situation and I don't think you ever describe it in exactly the way it happens.

I'm not bothered that the woman spoke to my daughter - she had every right to - but it was her hand being put in her face and her complete obnoxious manner that made me cross. I suppose I felt I had to stand up for my dd because I would have said something if someone had spoken to me like that.

I also agree my dd was in the wrong and I can't believe I didn't notice what she was doing. I think her chair was already resting against the table so it wasn't an obvious "banging" into it. We've done longhaul flights and had people say how well-behaved they'd been at the end so it certainly was unusual behaviour.

I did tidy up my cups etc straight after this incident and left, already having apologised to her and scolded dd.

I hope I wasn't too rude back but really stressed that she could have been a bit more polite iyswim. And then I left it, didn't want to get in a full-scale argument.

I think it's the 1st time my confidence has been battered at taking my dc anywhere as we usually either a)have no problems or b)tell them off/remove them/apologise to others as necessary without such agression from others.

Maybe I should stay in with them until they're 18......

[Tiramissu]

Well it seems like there should be a protocol to follow in these cases.

The lady should say: 'excuse me madam could you give me your e-mail address so i can write to you tomorrow and ask your permission in order for me to ask your 7 years old (!) child to stop kick my chair. Of course i will then offer to pay a fee for counselling because i do understand that all this could be very traumatising for you and your family'.....

But then again if you dont address the child directly the mother could say: 'Are you underestimate my child's intelligence?'

You can never win...

[Bucharest]

Agree with WannaBe....if that had happened to me I wouldn't have told anyone I'd have been so mortified...

[Libra1975]

Sorry if I have missed it but what did the other adult actually say to the child?

[wannaBe]

haven't read whole thread but

I don't get this "no-one may speak to my child" attitude. If your child is misbehaving and you aren't doing anything about it then imo the woman who had too put up with it had every right to tell your child to stop.

And I think that when we are in these situations, we see what we want to see. Someone whose back would already be put up by the fact that someone else had dared to speak to their precious child might choose to see that that other person was being agressive and nasty. Chances are that the other woman was just being firm, and there's nothing wrong with that imo.

Was the child in question distressed about this? did she stop? or did she carry on being an annoying little brat?

And then putting your face in someone else's face and being agressive you are doing exactly what you disapproved of in the first place.

Stop being so precious and teach your child to behave in public.

[eidsvold]

would you have been so rude if a hot cup of coffee had landed in the woman's lap from your child banging her chair into the woman's table??

[tigermoth]

I'm at the view that the woman had less right to be at the cafe because she had no food or drink in front of her. She could have been waiting for someone.

(mind you there a long AIBU thread on it being wrong for people reserving their table before joining the queue for food in self service cafes)

[tigermoth]

A polite 'will you not do that please' would have been sufficient - as beetroot said.

No problem with the woman telling off the child. But it was incredibly rude to be do the hand in face thing and be openly irate(if that is what happened).

You have to remember that family and this woman were obviously sitting very near each other in the cafe and I think that makes it even more important that things were kept on a polite level. The moment things started to slip was when the woman put the hand in the girl's face - the 7 year old was being naughty in an unthinking way, not deliberatly rude and aggressive, as far as I can see. Yes, a telling off is fine, but done in such a way to make things better, not make things worse.

Tbh, I would hate it if I felt someone just feet away from me was looking on, simmering with anger and disapproval at my child while we were trying to eat.

I think the OP didn't help matters by being rude back, but in her situation, I think I would have been cross too (hopefully not shown it) and moved tables to get away from the woman.

[SqueakyPop]

You should have been aware of what your dd was doing, and stopped her before it got to a third time.

[cory]

I never know how to handle this one. Happens not rarely, you're on a plane or a train and the child behind you keeps kicking the back of your seat. Extremely distracting, annoying and sometimes painful. But who do you speak to? If to the child, then the parent might take exception. But if it is an older child (thankfully less common), saying 'could you ask your child not to do this' to the parent seems so contrived as to be almost rude in itself.

And if not at 7- at what age are you allowed to address the child directly? Would you still ask the mother to ask a 10yo? A 13yo? It's got to stop some time. 7 seems quite old to me.

[Kewcumber]

yes hmc - but I'm just not sure which half I'm on - this planet or anther galaxy far far away.

But children don't melt because a stranger shouts it them even if its inappropriate (and tbh it isnt that obvious from the OP whether the woman was being unreasonable or not).

[handlemecarefully]

Might be time for a break - anybody else get that thing when they think half of Mn is on a different planet?

[handlemecarefully]

"my dad is always going on about the days when if a kid was a pain, the local bobby would clip their ear"

Oh yes, lets go back to those days

Sorry but some of you are fucking barking.

[loobeylou]

this is not so much aimed at the OP as a comment on general attitude to who should discipline kids....

my dad is always going on about the days when if a kid was a pain, the local bobby would clip their ear, or the local shop keeper would tell them off and threaten to tell their mum, or the teacher would tell them off - and when the parents found out about any of this, the kids were in trouble again. probably for bringing the family name into disrepute or summat. times have changed but not all for the better.

Nowadays, too many people will defend their kids over all sorts of behaviours because they want to be the popular guy with their DCs and don't want to/don't know how to take responsibility for poor behaviour. (hence aggressive parents going into schools and siding with their brats over something they don't want to believe happened, or slagging off the school to local paper for taking a firm stance on school uniform/inappropriate hairstyles etc)

My Dh told off a child, calmly and politely, in the park after school for teaching an excessively rude rhyme to our 6 and 3 yr olds - the child in question was 9, old enough to know what they were doing was very wrong, these were full blown swear words that would make a builder blush! Dh just said the kid should know better and please do not say those words to our children. The mother went mad at him and was rude and aggressive herself - huge bad example and message to kid that what it was doing was Ok. When surely she should have agreed and told her kid off - and been mortified about the bad behaviour in public

I think as a general rule if another adult feels the need to comment about your kids behaviour, they are probably right, though obviously there is a way to say things and any form of physical aggression/intimidation is OTT

[Cammelia]

Schoolchildren probably get spoken to very firmly every day at school, I doubt its much of a problem for them. I do think parents should get on with the job of parenting their children more than "having a go" at members of the public.

[Kewcumber]

personally I am always firm not harsh with DS Never been known to get irritable with DS and speak too sharply to him (no siree, not me). Inconcieveable that somone with less patience and perhaps no children would do so an she should be firmly (but not harshly) publically berated for her inappropriate behaviour

[Word]

(But using the word PLEASE of course)

[Word]

A right to tell them off, yes. Harshly, no - a firm voice should suffice.

[Cammelia]

I think if you're in public and your dc annoys a member of the public then member of public does have a "right" to tell your dc off.

Within the boundaries of reason, obviously.

[Kewcumber]

Liffey - I am SUCH a big fan of passive aggression in public it is so hard for people to know how to respond

[Liffey]

yes kewcumber, I do that too! In mock hushed tones!

[Kewcumber]

well I know how irratated I get with my own darling precious child when he is doing something relatively innocuous (and bangig against your table/chair repeatedly is for some reason rage-inducingly irritating) = so I can quite see why a child-free punter would get tad more irritable than they should perhaps in an ideal world.

Yes maternal defensiveness would probably kick in and I would feel like telling the old bag to bog off but don;t think it teachies your DC much. Think I would say to DC - "Look you have made that lady very cross now and she was tyring to enjoy a quiet cofee until we disturbed her" = it doesn;t actually say whether said lady was reasonable to be so cross and if necessary could be discussed later hat she was probably being a bit grumpy. ut does recognise that your DD annoyed her.

Am slightly sceptial about the how much she spent comment and the "earning respect" commetns. Are people who spend more entiteld to more of anything (except perhaps more cake) and do we really expect to earn enough respect to drink a cup off coffee in peace and quiet. How exactly do you "earn" that repect

[mytetherisending]

7!! At that age I would have thanked the lady if my dd was being a brat!

[mytetherisending]

Depends on the age of your dd. If she is pre-school I would have been annoyed but then I would have noticed dd doing it and stopped it. Not because it was irritating but because its dangerous, she could have fallen back off the chair. Sounds like she felt your' dealing with it' wasn't effective and children take more notice of unfamiliar adults.

[Blu]

PMSL at 'What would Audrey Hepburn do?'

I shall be adpoting that!