to think that a normally confident, professional, well-educated woman shouldn't turn into a little-girl-lost at baby groups?

[Bumperlicious]

Gah! I get so cross with myself. I haven't been to baby groups for a long time as I am back at work 3 days and the 2 days I am off we just like to potter. But been feeling a bit lonely so thought I would go to one today, never been before, it's at a church.

Anyway, it was full of people who all obviously knew each other, and despite me hanging around on my own for about an hour none of them made the effort to talk to me. I didn't just want to but it, though I did try and talk to them when they were noting the names that were all really similar "yours is an XXXX? Oh, mine's YYYY." Blank look. I eventually chatted very briefly to a couple of mothers, on my instigation. But no-one made the effort to talk to me despite clearly looking like I needed rescuing.

The thing is I am normally a very out going confident person, however I was bullied at school and these groups just make me feel like the square girl on the edge, trying to hang around with the cool kids. I just wanted to cry to be honest. What an idiot! And the worst thing is it makes me really "restrained" around my dd, I don't do any silly noises, or playing with her, just sort of follow her around going "oooh look DD, a doggy. Oh it's a baby". The thing is despite being on the surface confident and outgoing, becoming a mother has really knocked it out of me and I feel like I've lost my self confidence.

Help me feel better! How can I do better at these things? I must look like a complete lemon. This so isn't me!

Bumper, I stopped going to 'Baby Buddies', buddies they definitely were not. They made me feel like shit a totally inadequate mother as dd cried all the way through the first meeting, and most of the way through the second.

I managed to meet a couple of wonderful friends (mainly from things like Baby Massage and staring hopefully at strangers with prams in Starbucks), and avoided the Mother and Baby groups from then on in.

I still see some of the bitches women from good old Baby Buddies, but now dd is almost 16mo, I have the confidence to deal with them in the smug, patronising manner that they did with me.

You sound like my kind of person LOL.
Wine is always good to talk about and arrange to drink

God, that sounded a bit bitter! Lordy.

Bumperlicious I so understand how you feel I've felt like a leper in some groups I've been to. I now run a Parent and Toddler group myself and fall over myself trying to make people feel welcom, introduce them to ther people, make sure they aren't sitting there like lemons. I probably over do it actually - I'm just so wary of someone going away feeling like you did.

BTW, it isn't just you who has had the stuffing knocked out of them and their self confidence shattered since becoming a mum.

Toddler group.

I went to one when DD was still very small, to meet up with my NCT class supporter. It was unfortunate timing as one child was having a birthday party there (weird) so it WAS busy, but honestly, no one would even catch my eye so I could just smile at them. I left after 20 minutes, bumped into the class supporter, went back in with her, THEN everyone talked to me. Never went back.

The one DD and I went to for a couple of terms in the end, I only stuck with because the older women who ran it were very welcoming. Oh, and because there was a woman from work who sometimes went, and we would talk. And I DID end up crying in the toilets at that one because DD was so unbearably clingy, and I was stuck in the middle of the floor with her sat on me, couldn't move, no one was talking to me, and I just wanted to speak to a grown-up and was surrounded by them but ... argh.

I much preferred stuff like Hobbytots where you get involved with what the child is doing, and later on trampolining, but of course those things are LOTS more expensive than toddler groups, and more of a commitment.

Oh sounds awful - I agree, go to a different group. In fact, come to ours, it's lovely, small and friendly and we make great coffee!

I think so much depends on meeting mums of like mind to your own - I have been to some dire ones where I just knew I had nothing in common with the other mums so I stopped going even though DD actually quite liked them.

Bear in mind though that maybe some of the other mums were a bit shy or maybe they were just busy catching up with their friends and not meaning to ignore you. I am sure you didn't look at all like a lemon, in fact I suspect that you came across as being quite confident. I think it can sometimes take more than one visit to these things before people start to recognise you and say hello.

Rather than toddler groups as such do you know any other friends with babies the same age - I sometimes think it is better to hook up with one or two other kindred spirits and go for a swim or just hang out at each others houses for a coffee.

Or if you are looking for new people, maybe find a toddler group that does kindermusik or some other activity so that you don't just have to mill aimlessly around. This can give you something to talk about and it's less boring than just waiting for people to talk to you.

I guess it all depends on whether the toddler group is for your benefit or DD's - with me I always very clear it was for my own benefit i.e get out of the house for a change and a chat, so finding friendly people was a priority for me!

Ha ha!
Ringing Bells here too Bumper, although mine are gladly at school now... No More of that for me. I too was bullied at school and its really just back to the playground when you do this kind of thing. Think of it as the worst kind of test, if you do it again. Push yourself. You might find, with persistance that there's others like you there, if you have the time/inclination to return!! But never expect the other mums to come to your rescue! (Laughs to self recalling how , when first with DD1 out and about I just assumed all other parents would want to be my friend / be friendly! ... Yeah, right!)

Oh I just hate all these horrible cliques! I am very shy (that's why I like Mumsnet, I feel safe talking here....) I find the school gates an awful experience and with DC 2 on the way, I know that I will be lonely and go to the dreaded mums and babies groups and end up feeling like a prize plum sat there in the corner...

Dreading being on maternity leave because I only socialise with colleagues from work.

i hate these places and refuse to go, (and I have had children around my feet for 30 years, from my own to Mindees)

I heard them referred to on here the other day, as Titches 'n' Bitches, and thought how apt!

There is a little dark room off the hall that the group I go to is in, and I think it is meant for babies to sleep in. It usually just has me in it, welling up with tears. At least the last time I was joined by one of the kids who just gets ignored by his mum when he is there. We sat there looking miserable in the dark.

How old is your DD? could you sign her up for something like toddler gymnastics/swimming/music group where you have to sign up for a half term and pay up front. That way you see the same faces over and over, and there is a teacher who is leading the group.

I find that much easier. I will not go back to toddler groups after trying a few with DD1 and DD2 and always feeling worse when I left than when I arrived!

i hate these places and refuse to go, (and I have had children around my feet for 30 years, from my own to Mindees)

I heard them referred to on here the other day, as Titches 'n' Bitches, and thought how apt!

Yes we did have a giggle about that name confusedone! Still as foggy as yesterday?

Titches and Bitches - like it - how apt!

Bumperlicious, I know exactly where you are coming from. I went to a new m&b group this week where everybody just ignored me. I think I must give don't talk to me vibes or something!? I really try to make an effort to talk to mothers on their own, as I often find they are newbies like me. Usually they are more glad of chat, unless their friend turns up, and then I get ignored I am trying every m&t group in my area, until I find the holy grail of m&t groups, with friendly mums. Tis' my mission [saddo emoticon]

cats 'n' brats would work well too!

I hate them too. I moved house in february to another city and am really trying to make some "baby friends" locally (god that sounds desperate). Whenever I go I always end up feeling crap by the time I leave. dd always has a great time though. this thread has made me think maybe i just shouldn't bother any more.

it's 5 years since i last did toddler groups and i still get twitchy remembering the horror...

I remember at one particularly inpenetrable one asking a group of laughing, chatting mums: ''hello. I don't know anyone else here. I see you all have older babies. Can any of you give me some advice about teething'' (or someonething innocuous) and they looked at me, said: ''no'' and carried on talking....

I'm going to swim against the current here (just cos I'm slightly bored and have ten minutes to kill before school run)

I think you're all quite likely to be reading far too much into other people's behaviour. Just because people don't rush over to talk to you, it doesn't mean they're bitches. It probably means that they're talking to their friends, or dealing with their own children, or gratefully taking ten minutes out to stare blankly at the wall.

People don't necessarily go to M+T groups to make friends. Most go to amuse their children. They probably don't even notice that there's a new person there because - guess what? - to them, you're not the most important or interesting person in the room. They probably barely know you're there.

You have to adopt a different attitude, or you'll never make any friends at these things. Each time you go, tell yourself that you will talk to TEN people you haven't talked to before, even if it's only to say something incredibly mundane. Accept that about eight or nine people you talk to, you just won't click with immediately. You might get lucky with the tenth. Smile. Make eye contact. If someone blanks you, try to think realistically about why she might have done it. It it because she hates you on sight? Almost certainly not. Much more likely that she's preoccupied, knackered, deaf, or her budgie has just died and she's on the verge of tears.

Sorry to sound bossy, but this is hard-won experience.

thanks, superc. That's good advice. I find it pretty stressful even talking to one person. Maybe next time i go I'll try to be more proactive.

Help out. That's the best way to get to know people. Offer to wash up the cups or something. The people running it will be so grateful they'll positively gush over you I reckon. THe trouble is, when you're running one of these, is that someone new comes in and you go over and introduce yourself and tell them the ropes, but then there are things that need to be done. So you sort of have to leave them to get on with things, or there'll be no snack or coffee or craft activity or whatever. Seriously. Offer to help.

You'll always find me in the kitchen at playgroups

Bumperlicious - was there yellow playdough on the craft table organised by a tall stressed mother (brown hair, glasses, baby dribble on her top) with a 8mo boy and a 3yo girl (who threw a huge tantrum when it ws time to go!)

If so, I think it may have been the same group I went to this morning! I was the one wearing baby dribble getting kicked by the 3yo....

The group I go to had it's second session this week. I really meant to chat to the new Mums, like I meant to last week. Trouble is I'm shy too and was also in the middle of a huge row between my best mates who both also go. The row wouldn't have been obious to anyone else in the room, well not unless they saw the evil behind the back glances....

Anyway, I'm rambling - sorry! please don't think that all the other Mum's are utter bicthes -I'm sure some are probably very nice! Supercollider's advice is very good

I feel for you so much,I completely felt that loss of identity in the early baby days - to a certain extent I still do with a 3 and 1yo but I'm getting used to it I hated going to the local b and t with dd1 remember whole mornings when every remark I made to another mother was responded to with a blank stare, like a portcullis coming down.
But then one morning when pg and with a cold, I asked another pg and with a cold mum if she had a tissue and suddenly we were off chatting - pregnancy is very bonding. She introduced me to everyone in her little gaggle who had all done NCT together and we were off. They weren't there the next time I went but I approached another lonely looking mum and had a good chat. She wasn't there the next time but a woman with a toddler and a newborn was and I asked her how she coped as I would soon be in that situation and we had a lovely chat
So keep trying and approach other people who look like strays and it will get better. You have to remember you wouldn't click with the majority of people you randomly accosted on the street, so why would it be any different because they had babies. No one is watching you or judging you, they're all wrapped up in their lives so remember that and good luck!

Gosh, thanks for all the replies, good to know it's not just me!

This one was run by older women and a gentleman, obviously from the church, and they were the ones doing the teas etc. They were nice and spoke to me about DD, but they aren't the ones I'm trying to make friends with! I do have a few other mummy friends btw, but with us all going back to work our days don't seem to match up. And because DD doesn't go to nursery I think it is good for her to have a change of scenery and socialise.

I'm loving titches and bitches! But, in fairness to supercollider's point, I didn't just assume they were bitches, just thought they weren't very inclusive. I got the feeling they were all part of an NCT group or summat.

The thing is, most of these groups are on in the morning when DD usually has her nap. I'm not anal about her napping but that 1.5 hour that she sleeps is such a nice break an I'm just pissed off that I gave it up to go to this group, meaning we come back in a rush to give her lunch when she is cranky before trying to get her down to sleep. It doesn't make me want to go again, I'd rather put DD down and watch Come Dine With Me on my BT vision !

I don't know if it is this area? I used to go to a bf support group which I loved but it is on one of my working days. But there used to be an NCT Bumps and Babes which ended up stopping through lack of support and I found that the same as this, a bit cliquey and not well designed to mingle.

I just think it would be good if the group leaders operated some kind of buddy system e.g. "Oh you're new here, come and talk to XXX she has a baby the same age as yours" which gives you an in, feeling like less of a twat. But I guess the point is that we are grown up and we should be able to do it on our own!

Ok, if DD isn't too tired next week I'll give it another try and force myself on people make polite conversation. Better to leave feeling like an imposing lemon on the off chance of having a better time than not having tried at all.

I don't think of myself as a particularly confident person in M&T situations - but what I do is FAKE IT . I force myself to talk to people, do the inane baby chat 'what's your little boy's name?' 'how old?' 'what a cute pair of dungarees..' (believe me, sometimes I am desperate).

It pays off tho, and I now have a large circle of mum acquaintances, together with a select few women who I would have been friends with even if we didn't both have young children. I know exactly what you mean about it feeling like being back in school, but just get stuck in! Try different groups, talk to people and eventually things will click.