To think that a 5 year old child should automatically take their plate into the kitchen etc?

[CatMandu]

Ds and dd2 both had friends to play a couple of days ago, so we had five children for supper. One of the guests looked at me as if I was asking him to do something extraordinary when I asked him to take his plate into the kitchen. He also just wandered away from the table when the food was finished.

Now, it made me wonder if I'm a little unrealistic expecting children to ask to leave the table and to clear their plates away. I don't want to embarrass my dc's or their friends. The children were all 5 and 6.

It's not unrealistic to expect them to be able to do it. But it is unreasonable to expect them to know the rules in your house. My children wouldn't take a plate into the kitchen without being asked, because we eat in the kitchen and only one of us clears the table. They would assume the same. I expect they would wait to be told that they could get down, because that's how we operate at home.

You wouldn't embarass them though if you just asked "would you mind putting htat in the kitchen for me".

If you implied it was something they should know, you would.

I completely agree with Anna

we don't all clear our plates away individually after a family meal. Yes, if someone has a snack or eats on their own or at breakfast when it's not a coordinated meal, but not at other times.

My children wouldn't do it automatically at that age. They would however respond positively to a friendly and polite request for them to do so.

In our house, you help lay the table (DCs ages 6,5 and 2, youngest loves to help!!) and then you help clear, ask to leave the table and say thank you for your food.

PS I am rearing my children only and couldn't care less about anyone elses.

We dont have a dining table in our house because it is to small, i cant even fit a small bench in my tiny kitchen so we eat off our laps and i dont have a dishwasher [oh the shame off it]

some people just need to get a grip on reality, your expecting too much from someone elses 5 year old, glad it wasnt my ds eating at your house, he doesnt know what a dining table looks like!

I don't at all care for this stuff about asking permission to leave the table etc. Really loathe it, in fact (and several other rituals of that kind). I hope people just blame dd's slacker mom for such apalling manners.

'some of the expectations of very young children that i read on here just astound me.'

Me too!

Surely it's more a case of ask them nicely and hopefully they'll do it. You can 'expect' things from older kids maybe, but not really fair to go expecting things from 5 year olds, imo.

I don't think you are unreasonable to ask no. But I wouldn't be supried if children have not done this normlly at home.

I do insist DD asks to leave the table. Not all her friends have the same rule.

I don't ask DD normally to clear the table. If sat in dining room this means carrying things upstairs over pale coloured carpets - so DH and I would rather do it ourselves if had food with sauces, etc. Now she is a bit older (6y) she does help more and more though. But DD will do other stuff, and always offers too. So, she would help and not seem alarmed if someone asked her too, but she doesn;t do it all the time at home.

I personally wouldn't have people clearing the table whilst others were eating. To me personally that ould seem odd, and not very good manners.

But then we expect DD to sit at the table until DH and I have finished too, and have done since she was little.

If we are having a longer leisurely meal with friends then I do let the children get down earlier, but I would leave their plates on the table untilt he whole table was cleared when everyone had finished.

"some of the expectations of very young children that i read on here just astound me. "

I agree TMJ. Have read many a children's chore type thread and been suprised, and I remember been suprised at how young some children are expected to do tasks such as wash themselves, wash their hair, etc. too. Maybe I am odd. I quite like doing things for DD; it feels like a mum thing to do. And se will be all grown up far too quickly a it is and not want me doing stuff for her at all.

I wouldn't ask a guest to do that and especially not a 5 year old one. Don't have a hard and fast rule for my kids either- just expect them to help out when asked. Mind you, I'm messy and not big on etiquette.

yes yabu.

A five year old in someone else's house doesn't know the rules. It may simply not occur to him to leave the table without asking, take up his plate and and march uninvited into another room with it. He may even find the idea of doing so a bit intimidating - what if he drops the plate etc?

I wouldn't do that automatically, I don't know if the hostess wants me in her kitchen. Can't imagine why it should be considered automatic, from a five year old or any other age tbh.

Only the adults clear the table in my house. I have visions of DC tipping the remains of their dinner onto the carpet or dropping them on the floor. It would be a daily disaster. Eldest DS puts out mats and cutlery if asked, but I have never encouraged plate-clearing at all!

To be honest, if I had a 5-year-old guest who tried to take their plate out, I would probably ask them to leave it there and tell them to go off and play quietly while I cleared up?! In fact this would almost certainly apply to adult guests, too (except for telling them to go and play, of course).

to OP - all my children take their plates into the kitchen when asked. Otherwise, we would be there all day ferrying plates back and forth (5 of us)...

hmm... must remember to push hubby for new kitchen design!

I can't believe you're all still on about this!

I will repeat what I said earlier in the thread - I probably shouldn't have put 'automatically' in the title. I did say that what I was surprised about was the the boy looked at me as if I was mad for asking. Therefore I assume that he hasn't been asked to do this before.

I do not agree that 5 is too young, all three of mine have been doing this for years. I think children are being babied tbh, I seem to remembr this coming up on one of those Robert Winston programmes.

My three dc's are between 5 and 9 and they tidy their rooms, put dirty clothes in the washing, chose their clothes and dress themselves. My 9 year old also puts her clothes away in her wardrobe and all three make their beds. It's a win win situation because I then have more time to do good stuff with them and they don't think that Mum's are servants.

No, YANBU. Good manners are everything and nothing iyswim. Some parents don't pay enough attention to teaching them tho'. My 2.5yo takes her plate to the kitchen lots of the time without prompting.

I agree that children are babied for way to long. They need to be included and feel useful. They can only feel this given an appropriate level of responsibility.
My 2.5yo also puts her clothes in the washing basket. Gets her own dessert and spoon from the fridge, helps to put cutlery on the table and any condements. She cleans up any mess she makes at the table with a wipe etc. She enjoys feeling helpful and gets lots of praise for being helpful.

I think the guide to good manners in this case would be based on what we would expect an adult guest to do, if we invited them for dinner. Afterall, this is what we are shaping our children's manners for, in this situation.

If I have a dinner party, then I do not expect guests to behave in the same way as those ordinarily resident in the household.

At a dinner party I gather up the plates after each course, or DH does. Guests sit and chatter whilst I prepare the next course.

On that basis it was impolite of you to ask the child to take his plate to the kitchen and so I am unsurprised that he looked bemused.

Different rules are in place for those who normally live in the household. Generally though, we ask one child to clear away each course or set the table or get water and glasses for us all. We don't all do our own thing - which feels rather uncivilised somehow.

catmandu - sounds like our house!

all my children have chores to do.

taking the plates into the kitchen isn't a chore, it's just polite.

You had guests over for dinner, you were hosting, do you usually ask your guests to clear their plates?

IMO it is very bad manners to clear plates away during a meal - it disrupts the meal and makes people feel uncomfortable. Likewise, it is very bad manners to wander about an unfamiliar home, and bad manners to expect your very young guests to do so.

I can't see how this has anything to do with manners. It is just about what routines you have in your own individual houses.

As I said before I would personally find it odd to see people getting up and down from the table and clearing their plates awy whilst others were still sat eating. For my household this would be considered a bit rude, and not something we would encourage.

Therefore it is not something DD would do elsewhere.

However if somene asked her to clear her plate and take it into the kitchen, she would do so no problem.

It's not a dinner party fgs, it's a family kitchen supper with a couple of friends. If I'm at a friends house having an informal meal I wouldn't dream of sitting at the table expecting her to wait hand and foot. I'd help clear the table etc. Whilst I wouldn't ask a friend to take their plate into the kitchen I do think that a child who is likely to become a regular here can be treated in the same way as a member of the family. For example dd1's friends know I keep ice pop's in the freezer and in the summer will help themselves - I like that they feel relaxed and at home here.

Btw, who said we were popping up and down clearing plates while others where still eating? Once the meal is over the children take their plates into the kitchen while I clear the rest of the table. I have a narrow galley kitchen and there's no crashing into each other.

So, next time dc's have a child to supper I shall conform to the rules of this thread and treat the child like an adult at a dinner party .