To really dislike those Bounty packs that get forced upon us, whether we want them or not?

[electra]

I suppose I shouldn't be surprised since everything is a commodity today. But for some reason I find them in such poor taste. You go for a booking appointment with a midwife, so very early on in a pregnancy and it's an opportunity for you to be bombarded with advertisements for oak cots and so on...

I feel it's not entirely appropriate that healthcare providers buy into this kind of thing and endorse it and I felt the same when I was given one after dd2 was born and I barely had the energy to mumble 'I don't want one thanks'

YANBU. I declined it after having dd 8 weeks ago. I was mightily pissed off when the woman said "that's fine but I just need to let you know that the child benefit claim form is in the pack..............". I'd just had a prem baby, was a bit delicate and freebies were the last thing on my mind tbh............and the mention of the cb form was the last straw. In clipped tones I told her that I would do the form online.

So, she didn't force the pack on you then, Ladylush.

While you didn't want it, someone else might have been glad to have not had to worry about searching out forms, they might not have internet access and would need to phone for the forms. Being handed it on the maternity ward might have been a help to them.

Just because you didn't find it helpful doesn't mean that someone else wouldn't.

As was shown with you, if you don't want the pack you don't have to have it.

They refused to give me my one at birth as I told them if they were that official they should have my address already and I didn't want to be signed up to any mailing lists.

The woman then said I wouldn't get my child benefit form then. Luckily this was 3 days after birth when I was quite sentient and I replied "Is that really legal?" She went to 'check with her superior' aka walked out of the room and back again, and gave me the CB form...

I got the in-labour one but it got lost somewhere in the transferring me around hospital. Personally I agreed with my midwife's assessment of the antenatal one: Don't get too excited, it's just trying to get you to buy overpriced stuff. The most useful bit is the plastic envelope to keep your notes dry when you spill coffee over them. She was right!

juuule - true I suppose. I was very hormonal at the time so I reacted to the sales ploy (c b form).

Maggie - yes I did - she is nearly 5 months old now!

Why are the CB forms hidden inside the farking bounty packs in the first place? Why can't they be issued at the same time as the birth certificate when you register a birth? hmm? isn't this a case of the NHS colluding with Bounty to give women the impression that the packs are a part of 'the system'?

juule, I think she was having a pack forced upon her. The interpretation of what the Bounty woman told ladylush was that 'If you don't get one of these packs you won't have a form to collect money you are entitled to.' It is a form of blackmail. I think legally it is called duress.

Salvadory, I don't think we will agree here as our world views are like two ships passing in the night. However I would like to say that if you truly believe what you say about marketing and people's belief of their immunity to it well, if we were so immune to it, why do you think companies spend billions every year on marketing and tens of millions on market research? Even when they agree not to sell your details on, they use your details in demographical research and that information is sold on.

If you wholly buy what you say about marketing and women's (and men's) ability to deconstruct the marketing guff that is shoved upon them, then you may have taken a little blue pill or maybe two. It is probably time to exit the purple door and continue to enjoy your life in the Matrix.

foxytocin, quite. I think people are missing the point about the wider implications for us all. It is not just about freebies - the freebies are there to distract us from what is actually going on, somewhat successfully it seems.

salvador It is an infringement of human rights to not disclose in detail the purpose of taking someones personal details - yes. It is an infringements of human rights to use tactics such as uniform, badges, 'official-looking' clipboards, an air of authority and entitlement, bribary, and a pretend close alliance with regulatory bodies in order to obtain that information.

It is also a disgrace that women are not asked beforehand whether they would like a visit from these people. For many women at this time, the cleaner coming in to empty the bin can feel like violation enough.

On top of that, women ARE vulnerable at this stage. They are usually desperate to do write for their babies and half scared to death by the prospect, as well as having their bodies flooded with drugs and hormones. They are in a perfect pyschological state to be sole 'solutions' to their anxieties, or at the very least plant ideas into their heads, and that is why it is so wrong.

right - obviously.

And I completely missed the point that many established baby products are designed to encourage premature seperataion of mothers from their babies.

Maybe all women should be asked at their booking in appointment if they would like advertising reps to visit them in hospital and demand their details to sell onto companies, and the answer recorded and stuck on the end of their beds?

Those who said yes can have the Bounty lady come bothering them. Those who say no can be left undisturbed.

CB forms could be left with other leaflets on the ward for people to take if they need them.

But then Queen there would be an increase in the no. of women who said no and the hospitals would have to find the money elsewhere, - or perhaps they could charge Bounty a fixed fee rather than per person.

How much money does the NHS make then for allowing (in fact appearing to endorse) this blatant advertising inside hospitals?

I don't think they should be allowed inside NHS premises at all. I did the local BF peer supporter course and the SureStart midwife who ran it told me Bounty had asked for access to the Children's Centre to hand out packs - she refused, thank god.

What gets me about bounty is that they are an advertising company, a sales company, a business yet they provide a necessary service i.e the CB forms which appears to say 'we are not only reputable, but, in fact, we are the Government's choice.
Then Mum gets home, has a wibble about something or other, posts on the Bounty forum and the pull decent, reasoned arguments wrt things like early weaning and leave really bad advice.

Indeed VS ('tis AA in anti-DM guise)

I am banned from the Bounty forum again [devastated]

£1 - is that all the trust gets. I think the trusts should demand far more... they could then spend it on maternity services, SCBU.

YANBU to hate the packs. When I worked in children's retail, I hated the ad rep calls from Bounty / Emma's Diary. Took them a while to realise that I didn't feel that our products were suitable or that we could afford their high prices. Junior Magazine got our company far more custom... does Junior give out free magazines?

I got no pre-20 week maternity advice from my GP/MW. They told me everything I needed to know was in Emma's Diary, which I didn't accept when they tried to hand it to me.

That way I got to drink and eat whatever I wanted without guilt though

When I was on a cheapo cruise once, we had an emergency drill and when we arrived at the muster station without our life jackets we were all separated from our partners and put into height order with the tall ones at the back.

I wondered what kind of odd safety routine involved seperating your from your loved ones in an emergency but went with it.

Turns out it was so the photographer could have a quick click-dash of everyones faces one at a time with their life-jacket on, to sell for £15 in the boat shop.

Needless to say, I never parted with my money and even made a formal complaint.

WITH our life jackets.

The reason the Bounty women have the bloody NHS badge is because the hospital knows that they are there and allows them onto the wards, it's not to pretend they are official otherwise where would they get a badge??
I think it's bloody awful that they are allowed to indiscriminately go into rooms where bereaved mothers may be satying but who has let them on there, who has not told them to stay away from certain areas?
I work in hospitals trust me they do not just let anyone on to wards unless they know who they are first.
I keep saying that the Bounty woman is only doing her job, there are bound to be a few who are more jobs worth than others but you can bet they most definitely have not been directed to harass new mums.
Bounty are doing a service that the powers that be feel is a fair trade off and is obviously saving someone in government a bob or two otherwise they wouldn't be allowed to give out the CB forms.
I agree with Qof FE in that women should be able to opt out of bounty visits but i really don't agree with angry wasp. What exactly are the women who are in a vulnerable position likely to do when the bounty woman calls???
Hand over their baby? Or accept a folder full of crap and fabric softener which they can choose to use or otherwise.
I'm not naive to advertising and its methods but as it's all around us I really don't think the bounty pack is the root of all evils.
Most women who sign up to bounty have already given much more info abouth themselves away simply by having a supermarket loyalty card or having a credit card.
However the decision to have them distribute the CB form was not theirs alone. Perhaps those are the people you should be directing your anger at not the bounty woman.

Whilst I'm on my soap box have you seen how much advertising is on this website?? What makes the leaflets in a Bounty pack so different??

"What makes the leaflets in a Bounty pack so different??"

I don't see MN advertising formula milk, or food that is labelled as 'from 4 months'.

Bounty packs undermine breastfeeding and are given out just after birth because it's the time when new mums need help the most.

If the packs had good, needed information wrt the things mothers REALLY needed at these times I don't think anyone would be adverse to it being sponsored by sudocrem or fairy non-bio. IT's the formula milk companies and baby food manufacturers that make it such a problem. It's only a slightly more concealed version of what Nestle does in third world countries. Sells formula milk to often exhausted, worried, and desperate mothers.

I have also never seen MNHQ pull a thread because of anything other than either trolling or inappropriate behaviour. As I said earlier Bounty REMOVES posts on their forums that are merely stating facts about breastfeeding/early weaning. Both myself and QoFE (and others) were BANNED repeatedly from the Bounty forums after trying to help people that were being advised to feed their babies purees at a few weeks old!

salvadory what the women are likely to do is to hand over ££££ for "babies first photos" as taken by the bounty lady, while they are very possibly not in a good state to make rational decisions about such things.

Honestly the woman who came round my ward was going on and on "it's the first photos, you'll never get this opportunity again, these special first moments are something you want to record" etc etc. She did not mention up front how much the pictures cost and was approaching women on morphine etc.

Very hard sell to people who are vulnerable and totally unethical IMO.

"Bounty Ladies" are salespeople.

They are NOT giving away freebies at all. They are trying to procure details to add to the huge database that they SELL.

They SELL to companies to whom they also target with their business plan that says they provide unbeatable product placement, the biggest client database to market to, etc etc.

They provide advertising and product placement for businesses, and they pay the hospital fees to allow them to come in and market their product.

If it was a case of just "handing out a pack of FREE STUFF", the nurses could sling them round when they do the ward rounds checking stitches and blood pressure.

But they dont. I think it is naive in the extreme to think that it is anything other than a marketing ploy that targets some of the most vulnerable people (babies and their newly labour-worn mothers) in the country, at a time when they are tired, confused, elated, sore, sometimes traumatised, under the effects of pethidine, epidural, GA and various other narcotics given.

It's a fucking travesty that they are allowed to roam freely through maternity wards selling their wares to new mums.

It's one step away from the Nestle "nurses" that roam through hospitals in the far east providing formula milk samples "for free".