To really dislike those Bounty packs that get forced upon us, whether we want them or not?

[electra]

I suppose I shouldn't be surprised since everything is a commodity today. But for some reason I find them in such poor taste. You go for a booking appointment with a midwife, so very early on in a pregnancy and it's an opportunity for you to be bombarded with advertisements for oak cots and so on...

I feel it's not entirely appropriate that healthcare providers buy into this kind of thing and endorse it and I felt the same when I was given one after dd2 was born and I barely had the energy to mumble 'I don't want one thanks'

Interesting about the Sudocreme

It is no longer in Bounty packs as the MHRA decided it constituted advertising of a medicine.

A previous complaint had been disregarded. "In reaching a decision to take no action on the earlier complaint the MHRA took into account the long-established distribution of Bounty bags under the auspices of the professional care teams of the recipients, the long-standing association between Bounty and the NHS"

Apparently their title for Bounty ladies is 'Postnatal Caring Bedside Distributors'

[boggles]

What i still don't understand is why all of the anger is directed towards Bounty and not the NHS/government who allow them onto the hospital wards/ endorse their presence with the CB form, or take money for doing so, or aren't able to give clear guidance as to where is out of bounds for the sales people (private rooms where mothers to still born babies really should be kept exactly that- private)

As for the promotion of formula feeding the MW and HV are pretty well trained to give the other side of the argument.
I plan to BF my first if I can but there are plenty of women who choose not to (for their own valid reasons which are in my exp many and varied)and maybe these women don't mind the promo leaflets.

Is it really akin to the FF pushed onto mothers in the developing world, really??

The sudocreme removal seems to be the result of a rival pharmaceutical company (who I would be willing to bet make a less well known sudocreme-a like rival cream) and nothing to do with the NHS/MHRA deciding to clamp down on unauthorised promotional activity.
Write a letter to the hospital if you object to bounty's presence there, giving the poor woman who's doing a part time job jip is unlikely to help anyone, nor get anything changed in the long run.

sigh, salvadory, we know why they have to wear nhs badges. it is the fact that they use it as a tool to reinforce their 'official-like' status to influence con women.

oh, i don't know how many ads are on MN. my browser blocks them .

"What i still don't understand is why all of the anger is directed towards Bounty and not the NHS/government "

Oh, don't get me wrong, I think the Government should do something about it, but only Bounty has any control over their forums.

And. yes. it is akin to the third world Nestle actions, it's just cleverer because they have to get around laws in this country.

VVVQV - so eloquently put, I quite agree.

I have neither a loyalty card or a credit card!

Bounty are a business and as such I damn well hold them responsible for their own business model.

Yes, I also hold the Govt. responsible for not tightening up/enforcing legislation, and the NHS for allowing this tacit endorsement.

But to suggest Bounty are somehow unknowing patricipants is just, well, crap.

They make profit, massive profit, out of their marketing. They brag on their corporate site about how 90% of women say sampling is a major factor in their decision to buy, and how targetting HCP's will result in half of them recommending products to parents.

The Bounty forums are a disgrace. I have been banned 3 times and counting, for posting guidelines or for criticising manufacturers and companies. All they have at heart is ££££££. They give not one single fuck about the best interests of women and babies.

You opt IN to this website. It is not forced on you when you are in a psychological vulnerable state and have to opt out.

TBH I have no trouble giving the Bounty Lady jip when she comes round the ward. As mentioned many many times, after birth you are psychological vulnerable, and in no place at all to start government campaigns. EXACTLY the reason why this sort of activity is unethical.

Can someone clarify what the photography women spouting nonsense about security actually say and do, please?

It sounds a little far-fetched to me that an actual hospital would rely on photos of babies for security, as opposed to the vastly expensive door-locking and tagging systems they all seem to have, but then again, photos are cheap...

Am I right in thinking that the NHS does not take photos of babies for security, and that this is simply playing on new parents' fears while they are stuck in the unfamiliar environment of the ward?

If you look here at 'wallet cards' they were described as 'security' cards when I had my last child 17 months ago.

silverten that is exactly right. the nhs do not photograph your baby

Thank you both. I will go prepared to raise hell if anyone presumes to attempt to photograph silverten minor without asking me first, and tries to fob me off with officialese.

forewarned is forearmed

My line was:

Hello I'm from Bounty and here is your free stuff. Don't forget the CB form is in here.

We're just going to take a photo of your baby for security, which you can buy if you want a record of these precious early hours.

But I can't wait for your husband to get back from the loo. I'm on a tight shedule and it's for security. Oh forget it. Now can I have your details please?

No? Well we need them to be able to prove that you've got your free stuff.

Well if you don't give me your details we can't leave you a pack?

You don't want your pack? Oh just have it. Buy.

angry wasp "bye" at the end there excellent freudian slip!

"buy" rather.

lol - yeah

rofl

"As for the promotion of formula feeding the MW and HV are pretty well trained to give the other side of the argument."

Sorry salvadory, but Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!! You are having a laugh, no?

I remember a link that AA or VS posted once to show how Bounty works and how the promotion works. They were talking about how to reach millions of mothers! Why on earth would they bother if it didn't work??
It's brand recognition. You are struggling to bf, decided to top up with formula, remember that there was a leaflet from SMA/C&G/Aptamil in the 'official' Bounty pack, so buy that as it's 'trusted'

Hello VeeEss, long time no see!

Interview with Bounty MD

'Some brands he'd like to include from a financial point of view are precluded by Bounty's tough auditing department. "For example, we don't offer formula milk because of current guidelines that recommend breast-feeding."'

I know i'm turning into the bloody Bounty defence party of one here (lonely party of one at the moment too!)but there are certain issues that maybe I feel differently to you all about.
Firstly businesses exist to make money, Mumsnet, Boden, Shell and yes Bounty too I don't have a problem with that.
I'm not saying all things capitalist are a great idea but I appreciate that businesses exist to make money, some by selling things/promoting things we may not like/agree with sometimes in a way that we may not be happy with. For this latter point hopefully regulations will exist which can successfully stop any unlawful practices.
I keep saying that without the Hospital's prior permission no Bounty woman would get within a whisker of the wards, hospitals can and do ban Bounty so it's not impossible.

Secondly, in response to Stretch, how do the Bounty packs promote FF over BF??
I want to state here that until very recently I have never visited the Bounty website, in fact despite receiving the MW Bounty pack on my first visit I wasn't even aware they had a website/forum (you all on here have done a good viral advertisement of it for them). I'm in the dark as my baby's only due in 2010 but does the Bounty woman promote FF over BF actively or does she simply give out a pack that apparently now doesn't even have FF ads in there, I'm confused.
The MW and HV are really on task with encouraging BF (did you see my earlier post about my friend who's had a double mastectomy and was still asked why she had said no to BF (even though her cancer was in her notes!!!)
To me a leaflet and some promo literature in a pack does not equate to pressure to FF in the same way that actual pressure from the MW does (speaking as a woman who fully intends to BF and has not bought 1 single bottle!). I'm not talking about the Bounty forum as thats not even in the title of this AIBU and I've no experience of it.

Thirdly (and finally) in response to QofFucking everything. I have never once implied or suggested that Bounty are unknowing participants (in what??) They're a business, set up to make money, they have business models and proposals that are presented to and accepted by the majority of hospitals, for what?? the evil or marketing baby focused materials and other crap that new mums may be interested in.

The security photo scheme sounds stupid in the extreme and the clue that it's not hospital only may be in the line she gives when stating you can buy the pics after, why would anyone want to?? Unless of course they're nice professional pics and if so where's the harm? No-one is forcing anyone. Really in an age of digital photography and instant cameras I find it really hard to believe that the Bounty photo if the first pic taken of any baby.

Argh I can't limit myself to 3 points, to Angry Wasp, Don't you opt in to the Bounty pack just as you would opt into Mumsnet?? The Bounty woman asks for your details, you say no (if you'd rather not or you say yes if you don't mind) I know you've said on more than one occasion that "after birth you are psychologically vulnerable" and as I've not given birth yet I won't argue with you on that one but I'd hope that I'd be able to say no to someone asking for my details if I didn't want to give them.
However if i was too vulnerable then I'd be very cross with the care givers around me for letting her in to see me whilst in such a state, and I'd be much more inclined to give them jip as they would and should have more than some idea about my state than the hapless Bounty woman who having been given prior permission to be on the ward would have no idea where was out of bounds unless told by someone who does eg the nurses/midwives

Also I don't think I ever said that government campaigns should be started immediately post birth but I have gone on a bit so I best leave it eh? Thanks for a good debate, you've made me think.

let's hope you have a lovely birth and have no reason to be irate at the nhs or the bounty woman when she appears on your ward, salvadory. I like your username btw.

Noticed a big change in the amount of Freebies with DS1 & DS2. Between May 05 and Jan 08 Bounty (or the comapanies that pay to advertise with them) became very stingy indeed!

I got a box to keep wipes in, that was definitely the highlight of the 2 Bounty packs I recieved. I missed Emma's Diary, I probably chucked it quite promptly. I feel like I missed out on some initiation into the official view of pregnancy now! Damn it!