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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To expect a non - religious school NOT to practise worship?

116 replies

bloomingfedup · 07/09/2008 17:13

Please tell me if I am or not or just have my facts wrong. My DC is at a non- religious primary school, they learn about different religions - ok fine but they also practise pray to JC and God. My DC has been saying things like God is the saviour - don't get it.

OP posts:

AbbeyA · 07/09/2008 22:37

I took all 3 of mine to church, mabanana-all 3 don't go and don't believe in God. It was their choice, I am not going to coerce them in any way. I go on my own occasionally.They are free spirits-if they suddenly wanted to go to a mosque they would be free to do so.
I am not going to censor things and tell them what they must believe or not believe.

AbbeyA · 07/09/2008 22:40

You don't know that God doesn't exist Stopfighting. To be correct all you can say is that you believe he doesn't exist, which is fair enough. There is no proof either way, it is purely a matter of faith. Many eminent scientists believe in God, many don't.

Original poster

bloomingfedup · 07/09/2008 22:41

"Most schools actually do a prayer and then say 'if you want to make it your prayer say amen'. For most it is a period of reflection."

Most young children will not understand this and are likely to take the lead from the teacher.

OP posts:

AbbeyA · 07/09/2008 22:44

The teacher is only doing what they have to do by law-that is how they get around it. Young children may not understand but schools can't break the law. See my link.

Stopfighting · 07/09/2008 22:44

There is plenty of proof against the existence of God.

Can you give me evidence to prove he/she/it does exist?

Blu · 07/09/2008 22:44

"The born again head then had an affair with another teacher, left her husband, who intermittently turned up in tears at events.
Rambling, sorry.
Don't know how pleased God was about it tho'"

He's probably writing to Ofsted to complain...

AbbeyA · 07/09/2008 22:46

Can you give me proof that she/he/it doesn't exist. I will have to read it later-I am off to bed.

Blu · 07/09/2008 22:46

I am certain that DS's school routinely disregards this particular aspect of the National Curriculum - have never witnessed any worship in assemblies I have attended, and Ds has never mentioned it.

They sing Bob Marley songs.

LaylaandSethsmum · 07/09/2008 22:46

Yes they are likely to take the lead, I agree. In many countries there is no such right to object, the religion is compulsory , it has to be taught and obeyed and if the schools are 'secular' then they cannot teach any religion or belief system at all including atheism. My DD is at a non denominational school, I don't have strong beliefs in any direction, but I don't think the collective act of worship is detrimental either.

Original poster

bloomingfedup · 07/09/2008 22:47

Abbey

I have seen your link. I understand schools cannot break the law. The law needs changing ASAP. I do not want my kids to be brainwashed.

OP posts:

RedHead81 · 07/09/2008 22:49

blu - bob marley songs??? yeah mon!

Stopfighting · 07/09/2008 22:50

Too right Bloomingfedup.

I think they've got a bl##dy cheek.

mabanana · 07/09/2008 22:50

by taking them to church you are just outsourcing the 'telling them what to believe' though! Vicars/Imams etc tell you to sing hymns of praise, pray and tell you stories about how fab God is! That is telling children that God exists (and is good!)]
Why is it good to do this if you are religious but bad if you are not?

solidgoldbrass · 07/09/2008 22:51

LSmum: maybe in most schools it's not detrimental, but by allowing it and indeed insisting on it, the way is paved for detrimental stuff to occur ie kids being asked to pray for, oh, dunno, followers of one imaginary friend to change their minds and follow the imaginary friend being cited in this school, kids being told that people of a certain physical appearance or style of clothing are the imaginary friend's enemy...

THe one good thing that can be said about well-meaning wooly Anglicanism as the state superstition is it does serve to keep the even worse nutters at bay.

Original poster

bloomingfedup · 07/09/2008 22:54

mab

If a family wish to bring their child up in a certain religion - fine. If a family choose not to - fine. If I was of one religion and the school was encouraging another religion I would feel as strongly about it.

OP posts:

mabanana · 07/09/2008 22:57

Of course it's a parent's right to take their kids to church/mosque/temple/synagogue etc and tell them their particular God is the top God, but I think it's odd when people who think this is find, think it is wrong when an athiest says about religion, 'it's just a story'. It's double standards, that's all.
I don't think it's right that schools have to have acts of worship at all.

Original poster

bloomingfedup · 07/09/2008 22:59

mab

I agree.

OP posts:

mabanana · 07/09/2008 23:01

And I agree, you don't want to take them out because it makes them different, you don't want to contradict their teachers in case it encourages disrespect...it's very difficult.

Heated · 07/09/2008 23:08

My children will arrive at matters of faith in their own time. I am very happy for them to have a daily act of worship if it teaches them to reflect, love thy neighbour etc. I know it doesn't have to be dressed up in Christian window dressing but having to teach the 6th form the creation story to get them to access William Blake's poetry convinced me it's also good general knowledge. There are so many allusions in life to the Bible & Christian doctrine which, if you don't know about them, you don't get.

RedHead81 · 07/09/2008 23:17

schools shouldn't "encourage" religion - unless its a faith school. this should be left to parents if they choose. My primary school wasn't very geared towards religion - we did have songs, but most of them were fun to sing, and our head used to say the odd prayer - but it was really more or less a time for praising the childrens efforts the previous week/day - school plays were never religious (except the xmas nativity of course) my one class friend was a Hindu and she was never taken out of assembly and neither was another friend who was a Jehovahs Witness. I still keep in contact with my Hindu friend and she certainly was never brainwashed in primary or secondary school.

secondary school was quite different - our head was def a christian! She made you sing!

I believe in God (Christian) but my dh doesn't. i also believe in the big bang theory (although i link it to God) IYKWIM! I'm rambling now! I guess what i'm trying to say is that I don't push my belief on to my children - he (ds1 - ds2 is too young yet) has got some childrens bible stories - daniel and the lions, david and golieth, noahs ark etc... but thats all they are to him - stories - if he chooses to believe them or not when he is older, then thats his choice. I like cbeebies - they tend to put things on there about other religions too. as long as children are taught to respect other peoples beliefs, then thats all that matters. If they take comfort from what they are being told about a religion, then is there really any harm? when it crosses a line and they are scared by being told they will go to hell, then i think it is time to step in.

solidgoldbrass · 07/09/2008 23:50

Heated: there are plenty of allusions in everyday life to Greek, Roman and Norse mythology as well, and many schools cover these myth systems at some stage. But they don't make the kids pretend that Jupiter, Athena, Odin or Frigg are 'real' let alone insist that these mythological figures get talked to every day. I have no problem with children being taught about religion but forcing them to participate in superstitious rituals is not and should not be the job of a secular school.

GrimmaTheNome · 08/09/2008 01:01

This comes up so often... but chewing it over on MN doesn't really help. Is there anyone doing something to stop this implicit indoctrination ?(I really object to hymns like 'who put the colours in the rainbow blah blah ... it surely can't be chance ... God did' ). Any petitions going?

JudgeSlur · 08/09/2008 01:05

petitions schmitions

try getting involved with the secular society

AbbeyA · 08/09/2008 07:27

By taking them to church I am not 'outsourcing telling them what to believe' , I am equally happy for atheists to tell them what they believe. The one thing that I don't want to be is dogmatic and tell them what they have to believe.
They are individuals-I gave birth to them but I am not going to programme them.
Collective worship is a time of reflection. I think vicars/ministers/priests etc would be overjoyed if a school assembly was going to make converts for life! It doesn't happen. Most won't think it worth a mention, as in Blu's DC. Assemblies that you attend will be class ones, usually about something they have been working on. The rest are likely to be a hymn, story or talk and prayer.
Schools are not secular if they are not church schools. C of E is the state religion,they are bound together-to have secular schools you need disestablishmentarianism.
explains collective worship
suggestions for dropping it

UnquietDad · 08/09/2008 10:16

I don't quite get bettyboobird's point. I am not free to tell my DD that god is not real? Even though people at school are (even implicitly) saying that he/she/it is?

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