to think it is rude to persistently refer to God/Allah/etc. as an "imaginary friend"

[AtheneNoctua]

even after asked not to by several posters who have stated they found it offensive.

thanks nooka I gave up in the end as you can see

Do most or all atheists hold those who believe in distain, or only some, there is a huge difference, I am not muddling anyone up as I was not addressing any one group in particular.

Andiem, this will be the third time I have apologised for a remark which was made with no intent whatsoever, I hope this final apology will be the end of the matter

It is a bit - but not rude to question peoples faith in less sarcy terms.

Andiem, the secular society affects the way Christians live their lives in a way that many find difficult to live with. Everyone, believers and non believers alike, understandably wants society to reflect and take into account their views.

Are you saying that the Church should have no influence on society whatsoever? So your non-belief takes precendence over my belief? Do you think that is fair?

It shouldn;t affect objective things - like science at all.

It can adn does have a place in som ereas of philosopy. But it should never be given any real power - nothing so irrational should.

But monkey, that is my point. In your opinion faith is irrational, and therefore has no place in society's decision making. That is just your opinion. You think you are right, but then, you would do. You are neither wrong nor right about this (well, you are either wrong or right, but as it impossible for us to know either way, you cannot exclude the possibility).

In my opinion is is presumptious to question anyones faith, only God knows what relationship that person has with his/her God. My faith is not the same now as when I first became a christian, it has altered and will be different tomorrow to what it was today, it is challenged all the time. Its not a fixed dogmatic thing, I have crisis of faith and also great surges of certainty, my faith has been and will be a journey which I hope will end when I stand before the God I believe in. If it doesnt what else is there? If its nothing it wont matter, I will be dead and my body will rot, and if my spirit does not return to God I have no idea what will happen to it.

I think most rational people agree that state and religion should be separate. I honestly think any other arrangement is just asking for trouble.

I'm not suggesting that there should be no seperation of church and state, I am just explaining why I think in a pluralist society all views need to be represented and considered, regardless of how "rational" you think they are. In any case, my faith is rational. It may not be valid (no way of knowing), but it is rational.

georgimama your faith is valid to you, doesnt that make it a valid faith?

AMuminScotland's understanding and interpretation of the Bible is more like most Christians I know and respect.

I have no idea what 'faith' schools are doing to unbelievers - I've said already I don't agree with faith schools - and don't agree with any link with church and state.

I don't think it's fair to discriminate against atheists or agnostics.

I used 'all that shite' to refer to war-mongering/misogynistic/anti-gay stuff and I stand by that disagreeing with that life hating so-called Christian life

You see twinnie, it's statements like this that make you sound partonising.

"In my opinion is is presumptious to question anyones faith, only God knows what relationship that person has with his/her God."

To an atheist is is as reasonable as saying
"In my opinion is is presumptious to question anyones faith, only the fairies knows what relationship that person has with his/her fairies.

Church attendance in this country is 10%. That is 10% of the population are prepared to go with the Christian teaching that weekly worship is advisable. (I'm obviously not counting Jews, Muslims, Jains, Buddhists, Scientologists, Zorastorians, Sikhs, Hindus and any other believers in an amorphus creater here.) Yet, somehow, this minority view is allowed to prevail to the point where it becomes the socially acceptable arbiter of morality and the moral basis of law. Tell me that isn't crazy.

georgie my views as a non believer do not cause discrimination you are free to practice your faith how you see fit
faith schools do they take state funds and then use them to discriminate
that I believe is wrong
in the same way That I believe abortion is the individual choice of the woman involved again an area where christians would choose to take away freewill

lol georgimama

But that is the point exactly. Rationality is not a mear matter of opinion at all.

Do planes fly because people are of the 'opinion' they do? No.

Ooops, I meant patronising, not partronising, which sounds like an euphanism for farts.

Sorry, I am really muddled. In one post it is merely an opinion that your faith is irrational, but in the next you have decided that it is. How you thought faith could be rational is beyond me, as faith is pretty much by definition not based on reasoning but on belief (the "jump of faith").

And twinny - touche . On reflection I think most is the right quantifier, but the degree of disdain will vary.

I would not take away or vote for anyone who who was anti-abortion.

Indeed, I am one of the many Christians who has had an abortion. So, again, this Christian would not take away any abortion rights.

lol slug

Yet doctors are allowed to refuse abortion to atheists on the grounds of their beliefs, Christian or otherwise.

What you would, or would not do is irrelevant, i'm sure you are a lovely and thoughtful person. However, the discrimination that is allowed on the basis of the beliefs that you profess to share is shameful.

But you are not in a position of power are you? The point is that there is too much influence held by the church, not individuals. Luckily in the most part religious leaders are not successful in forcing their views into the political process, but the possibility is very much there, and where they have been successful they seem to be gaining more influence, not less (ie more religious schools are being built, but no religious schools are being converted into secular schools, despite falling church attendance and growth of secular thought).

Slug If you think I am patronising you for stating my opinion, clearly stated as such, I dont know what to say. I dont think you are patronising when I read your thread, I am interested in what you have to say, in however way you wish to express yourself.

No, doctor's are not allowed to do that. They are allowed to not take part in the process. They have to be non-judgemental and refer you.

Nurses are allowed to leave the room while the aboriton is being done but are not exempt from patient care before and afterwards (as it should be)

No more so than calling 'Converts' 'reverts' because a faith maintains that everyone is born in it, and simply 'falls by the wayside'.