to think it is rude to persistently refer to God/Allah/etc. as an "imaginary friend"

[AtheneNoctua]

even after asked not to by several posters who have stated they found it offensive.

amMminscotland I like your description of god. I see it that way too.

When I pray I open my mind and reach out. I usually get an anwer if I require one. Sometimes with a thought I hadn't had..like an inspiration or sometimes later the answer arrives through something someone says or does.

oops aMuminscotland

Amum, man is unique from all other animals in that we feel and think. Sure chimps and other animals may work things out ie. learn to use tools etc. but I'm talking about man being able to survive on his brain power alone. We don't have fur, or strength or speed etc.
When you look at the universe Earth (in our planetary system anyway) has life (as we know it) only because of the spectrum of light from the sun that we fall into. It is balanced in the distance, the amount given to any one place...(shadows change every 15 minutes) and we have this water that everything living has to have to survive.
For all the scientific balances required to make this happen...why man and only man? Why not chimps? Or whales or octopus?
We record everything too...why? We don't stick around long enough for us as individuals to use it. So why did the cavemen do the drawings? For fun? I doubt it. Why the development of music? It serves no purpose but to make a person feel a certain way.
Perhaps it is part of a grand plan. Something that couldn't be comprehended back then, or now really.
The miracles are all around if you just open your eyes and see them.
As for the insistence of calling someones deity "an imaginery friend" (this addressed to SB) arguing with an idiot makes one an idiot. Is there a way to ignore a certain person on this site? I wish it could be the same in RL. Plug in the background music.

I have to say these threads are a real work-out for me - I'm sure it's doing me good!

For me, the whole self-awareness thing is the key - I don't think we'd have the capacity to be aware of God if we didn't have that. In fact, so far as I'm concerned (as one who doesn't believe in Adam & Eve) self-awareness is the closest I get to humanity being "in the image of God" in Genesis. I don't think it's about having two legs and two arms, or one particular set of genitals! I think we're the first part of evolution/creation to have the capacity to be aware of ourselves and God.

Just one point re:rationalism (then I'm buggering off out cos I hate getting into these threads)

It may not seem rational that there is a supernatural being that created the earth, but I don't see the Big Bang theory as particularly rational either.

Something/one created Earth and life as we know it, whether it was a 'big bang' (That we have been unable to recreate) or some form of supernatural incident it is almost incomprehensible for us to understand.

Try telling us there was no beginning? How is this possible? Everything has a beginning? But what was there before the beginning? etc this could go on and on, we cannot explain. Both religion and Science seem pretty far-fetched in this case.

SGB - You say "The only thing I have a problem with is people insisting that they and their myth systems and imaginary friends should get some sort of special privileges." I totally agree but I think you're being incredibly rude with the constant use of 'imaginary friend' when so many people have said they find it offensive.

AMiS, Totally agree, when the bible says God made man in the image of himself, I believe that is wrt a having a spiritual being (the breath of God) and knowledge, the one thing that separates us from the animal kingdom.

I think there is a misuse of the term "rationalism" here. It's not just about what "seems rational." Lots of rational things "seem irrational" - bumblebees flying, clouds making pretty patterns, rainbows - but can be backed up with solid scientific evidence.

If it was a supernatural incident that created the universe, one can be forgiven for wondering why there have been no such spectacular supernatural incidents recorded since.

And if you want to cite miracles, it's fascinatingly convenient that they haven't happened in the 100-odd years since humanity has had the capacity to record its experiences visually.

I think SGB is being entirely too charming in terming the delusion of a relationship with a supernatural being 'imaginary friend'.
Having once been a christian, I know they are not the same thing at all. Unfortunately.

If god and the big bang are supposed to be equally irrational explanations can I 'believe' in the big bang and go around saying "the big bang demands that you stop eating meat on fridays and all non believers in the big bang should be put to death"

If not put to death at least told never to disagree with the big bang because it would be offensive to someone elses belief.

is the big bang your imaginary friend onager?

I'd be interested in a more precise explanation of how - apart from the fact that you believe in one and not the other - God differs from an "imaginary friend".

This is the philosophical point behind what could be seen as an insulting term. It's supposed to get believers thinking, and explaining in a way acceptable to non-believers, exactly how the two are different - and crucially, why someone who doesn't believe in god should think they are different.

If someone believed in a deity which was imaginary, how exactly would this manifest itself? And how would this be different from the belief held by, say, a Christian?

well I don't believe in it of course any more than I 'believe' in gravity. If I did then it would be and it would be bigger than anyone elses imaginary friend so there!

It looks to be the other way around andiem, onager is the Big Bangs imaginary friend. The BB is a "theory".
As far as miracles go...I've had several during my short time (49 almost) and a lot of coincidences. Probably more than my share.
If you are atheist, that is your choice. Go ahead and think of others chosen religion or belief like the lotto. There are a few winners...many don't win. It doesn't mean it doesn't exist but you can't win if you don't play.

atheism isn't a choice though. It's just...bloody obvious.

UQD.. presumably you wanted an answer from a believer, but I'll give mine anyway. I think the difference is that 'imaginary friends' are the spontaneous creation of an individuals imagination. No authority figure (parent, teacher, preacher) tells you what its like and that its good to believe in one and bad not to.

Maybe someone should start a religion around "death" or aging? They are painfully obvious, some do it better than others...and no one would be able to think they were excluded.

slug yes of course it is easy to induce ritualistic behaviour based on the promise of reward. But Christianity is about good for good's sake, not for the reward of heaven. Authorities and institutions have used heaven as a kind of delayed gratification promise to prevent revolutions, etc, but this isn't what it is originally about.

Good point, but there must have been a first person who said "I have a friend who is with me but no one can see him. His name is " just like a child who says "susan is right there beside me. She wants a cake too"

At that point there was no difference at all.

i think it is human nature to think that your way of thinking is superior to others. And that your opinion if 'fact'. Both believers and athiests fall foul of this. I myself like to think I am right, as a Christian agnostic, and that that is the truest state of mind. Of course others will think that is a load of baloney. The degree of arrogance with which someone expressed their beliefs is more pertinent really.

Quite frankly I am more worried at the moment about our universe disappearing down a microscopic black hole of our own creation. Apparently this won't happen because of Hawking's theory about radiation zapping black holes, but then it is only a theory and hasn't been proven yet. Great.

Righto Onager, so approach it from this direction. Say God or Allah or whomever is too advanced or whatever for us to comprehend. Now lets use the death as a tool as something we can comprehend and something that has been around since life began.
I've had a good many ancestors that have (on their deathbeds) and when they were supposed to be perfectly on the mend declare a vision or being if you will that no one else could see. They did die. Does that mean that they were all just seeing things? Or could it mean that there was an imaginary being with them?
I just think everything has a reason, we don't always get to know the reason but things tend to happen like a thread in a tapestry. You have everything that has to be a certain way...like a planned way.

But doesn't that equally support the theory that all children's imaginary friends are real?

Sorry but how is anyone's religion like Lotto? I don't think any religion provides a tangible reward. But then I don't play the lotto either. The odds are ridulous whereas the costs are clear. I guess if the lotto was truely unwinnable rather than simply having very very long odds it might be a better analogy. Personally I prefer to make my own way in life rather than trust to luck/god/s.

Ruty, I wouldn't worry about the black hole as much as the dead zones expanding in the oceans or some plan to dump all the toxic waste in a mountain halfway across in the middle of the country.
This thread is so off topic now though...I thought it was established as insistence of "an imaginary friend" as being rude.