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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think it is rude to persistently refer to God/Allah/etc. as an "imaginary friend"

815 replies

AtheneNoctua · 05/09/2008 09:04

even after asked not to by several posters who have stated they found it offensive.

OP posts:
MrsMattie · 06/09/2008 21:36

Maybe we just don't feel the need to 'fill' our lives with a load of imaginary nonsense?

SqueakyPop · 06/09/2008 21:47

They all have something missing, mabanana.

nooka · 06/09/2008 21:52

What's the golden rule? It's a big jump from thinking that those who don't believe in your god have something missing to say that their lives are empty. I am sure most people who have faith think that others would benefit from it, and I don't mind them telling me so (uless they go on and on about it). Your view point is offensive however. But I understand that you are stricking back at what you see as the offensiveness of those who use the term imaginary friend. I think it is sad that you feel you have to do so.

nooka · 06/09/2008 21:54

And there (SP's last post) is the reason why I am very happy no longer to be a practicing or believing Christian. I hope never to be that arrogant about people who I have never met or that sure about my own views or opinions.

mabanana · 06/09/2008 21:55

arrogant.

SqueakyPop · 06/09/2008 21:56

Just as offensive as those who say that I believe in an imaginary friend.

If you don't want to be offended, then don't go out of your way to offend. What comes around, goes around. You may feel that I am deluded, but please know that I think that your life is missing an essential chunk. I'm sorry if you find that offensive, and I would never say it on a regular thread. But that's what I truly believe (if you care).

mabanana · 06/09/2008 21:57

arrogant and offensive though.

mabanana · 06/09/2008 21:57

No, I take back offensive, because I'm not offended - don't care. But it's bloody smug!

SqueakyPop · 06/09/2008 21:59

Cool - your feeling will hopefully make you think twice before uttering imaginary friend.

It's amazing really, the people think they can kick and kick at Christians but then whinge when they get a little bit of blood on themselves.

Of course, it was all foretold in the bible. We know it is the way of the world.

mabanana · 06/09/2008 22:08

You sound a bit barmy, I think. 'Blood'! (I like that emoticon]

nooka · 06/09/2008 22:13

SP you are now sounding very odd indeed. Yes some people here have trotted out the imaginary friend line. I have not, and neither has everyone on this thread. But I really do think that the way you have expressed your views are pretty repugnant and play into the arms of those who think religion is a divisive force.

UnquietDad · 06/09/2008 22:24

I'm just catching up here.

The reason the debates about atheism sound a bit "tired" and "hackneyed" is that there are only so many ways you can keep on saying the same thing. We try our best to offer sparklingly rhetorical ripostes, but even I run out after a while.

It's like that new insult, "militant atheist". That would be one who persists in their awkward and irritating way in not believing in god despite having been told again and again that they are wrong, wouldn't it?...

I think the "imaginary friend" thing is, mmm, okay, maybe on the rude side, but it comes out of frustration and exasperation. It's another rhetorical device, if you like, a way of trying desperately - trying any way - to get through to cloth-eared theists (not that they are all cloth-eared, but I meet a lot who are) who Just Don't Get What Atheist Means. It's come after decades of the debating equivalent of banging one's head against a brick wall.

It's a way of trying to say "look, what if your god was just an imaginary friend? And you believed it to be real? How would that situation manifest itself? And how would that be different from the one we are talking about now?" I think thats quite interesting, philosophically.

And yes, no proof. No proof given, no proof demanded. Because you can't prove it either way. But if you can't prove it either way, there has to be something else to justify it, otherwise any old crap - fairies, imaginary friends, dragons - is eligible to be let through the portal of belief. There has to be "gatekeeping", and that gatekeeping is rationalism.

The person making the extraordinary claim has to offer the evidence. Always. It's just that, to a lot of people who have a religious belief, it doesn't seem that extraordinary, or in need of justifying with evidence. And I understand that. Because they are inside it, and cannot see beyond it, and it will always be so.

MrsMattie · 06/09/2008 22:26
SuperSillyus · 06/09/2008 22:43
Grin
onager · 06/09/2008 23:05

I see that Squeakypop has decided to go with the new age "hell is seperation from god" but with the traditional "all foretold in the bible" option.

Would you like a diet coke or milkshake with that Squeaky?

Can we have a whipround to send Squeaky to Saudi Arabia to explain to the heatherns that "anyone who does not have faith in the Lord Jesus Christ has something missing from their lives" Or perhaps China?

Niecie · 06/09/2008 23:52

Ah a good old fashioned ruck about religion.

Imaginary friend is patronising, a pat on the head, run along and play kind of a statement.

Offensive? Not sure. Lacks imagination so not really offensive at all.

I like these threads as they help me sort my own head out a bit. Thanks to the atheists I am tending towards believing that there is a God. The narrow insistence on only that which can be proved and proved empirically leaves way too many questions unanswered. It tells us about the how but doesn't tell us about the why.

There has yet to be empirical evidence to explain the existence of things that we all know to exist like love and consciousness because it can't get to the essence of either. Whilst annomalies like that survive I can't see how you can rule out a belief in God just because there is no empirical evidence.

Besides what a lot of atheists fail to accept is that most Christians believe they do have evidence of the existence of God. Unfortunately, atheists tend to ignore this because it isn't their kind of evidence and they can't see beyond their own narrow definition.

onager · 07/09/2008 00:15

The world was created by a small chocolate pudding. There is no empirical evidence that this is not so.

It may have had a cherry on top, but the authorities are split on this point.

Soprana · 07/09/2008 00:23

I don't think gratuitous rudeness about anyone's opinions is warranted, but neither do I think that religious beliefs deserve any special respect or deference. If other people choose to believe there are fairies at the bottom of the garden, that aliens abducted them or that some invisible entity called god created the world in 7 days, this is a matter for them. But they shouldn't expect me to show them any special respect for holding these beliefs.

edam · 07/09/2008 00:35

Um, Squeaky, you are attacking all atheists, agnostics and followers of religions other than your own and trying to justify this by saying 'don't dish it out if you can't take it'. What about the millions of people who have not insulted you but fail to share your beliefs?

SqueakyPop · 07/09/2008 08:11

I don't see any attack. Just telling you what I believe.

I don't usually say these things on regular threads, but since this one is about a regularal attacks on Christians, I thought it might be interesting to turn the tables and let you know how some people feel when they are attacked and deliberated disrespected.

Actually, the key thing that bugs me about the IF remarks is that they usually pop up on serious threads where we are discussing a narrow topic (eg faith schools). This is nothing less than trolling, and it tends to pull other trolls out of the woodwork. I don't mind a rationale debate, although I am not a great apologist, in an appropriate thread in the PCE area.

What I beleive/don't believe about non-Christians is not appropriate to be embellished in this thread, but I would be happy to discuss in PCE.

justaboutagrownup · 07/09/2008 08:25

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SuperSillyus · 07/09/2008 08:26

I think it is easier to grow and learn if people don't think they already have all the answers.
So I am uncommitted, wishy washy and appear easily swayed because I know nothing for sure but I'm very very open minded!

wehaveallbeenthere · 07/09/2008 08:30

Oh, I just love these arguments.
I'm not going to state what I believe or how much background in Islam and Christianity I have.
For those of you out there that believe in God, or Allah or a multitude of deities. You are entitled to your beliefs. This is what you cling to, have grown up in and this has been for a long time (the Islamic religion has been around a lot longer than the Christian ones mind you...that is a fact).
So let me ask you. Do you believe in love? Or is it some chemical reaction to phermones and brain produced enzymes?
Or is it something you can't touch or justify with science...but you just feel it in yourself so gladly follow it blindly because you believe in it so strongly?
Yes, I know I'm going to really stoke the fires.

justaboutagrownup · 07/09/2008 08:34

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SuperSillyus · 07/09/2008 08:40

I think love is an action as well as a feeling. It's a choice. I think you can't love others if you don't first love yourself. I suspect love is god.

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