to think it is rude to persistently refer to God/Allah/etc. as an "imaginary friend"

[AtheneNoctua]

even after asked not to by several posters who have stated they found it offensive.

How do you know they have no personal relationship with Jesus twinnie? Can you see inside their hearts? Or would the more rational explanation be that they don't have the same view of Jesus that you have?

Personally I happen to know that Jesus was a bloke who lived about two thousand years ago. I know that because there are several independant sources that mention him (Josephus and a Roman bolke whose name I can't remember) But that's as far as my knowledge of Jesus goes.

Laurie, have you really not met any of these people? Try any Western government, they are crawling with them.

I think empirical is a better word than rational there is no empirical proof of god therefore for some he/it/she exists because they believe it for others proof is required

twinnie I'm not sure how you can fall over jesus
and your argument only holds water if you believe...... I just get the feeling from you that you think only christians can be good people I'm not sure if that is intentional but that is the subliminal message you are sending out to me at least

Ha twinny, but how do you know slug is not god?

I hate that Palin woman I really, really do.

I genuinely think something very sexist (which my dh will argue with, with me later) that all the men in america would rather vote for a white woman whom they think has little influence and whom they can control than a man of colour (racist bastards)

LOL, it's about as subliminal as a sledgehammer

Given that kindness, decency and loving they neighbour are the only aspects of Christian doctrine the "liberal Christians" on this thread have been prepared to own - perhaps "humanist, but with imaginary friend" would be a fairer epitaph.

Laurie, you should meet the midwife I had who refused to get an anethist for me because, and I quote "Woman are meant to bring children into the world in sorrow and pain". So thanks to a reaction to gas and air and a Christian midwife I was forced to endure a forceps birth with no pain relief.

LFC - I don't know any "that rogue teacher who preaches abstinence instead of condoms in inner city schools." personally either.

But we all have heard of the pope, who preaches that to HIV-infected Africans. His dogma has cost innumerable lives. Created millions of orphans, often born infected themselves. Poor blighters.

probably way off topic cos I've not had time to read everything but I find this a heck of
a lot more offensive than the OPs complaint. Rude, certainly; harmful, no.

georgie all christians may not be opposed to it but the church is and since it is the church that holds the political power that is where the influence of the church is wrong
you seem to think that just because you don't agree with everything the church does the influence of the church is somehow benign well unfortunately that is not so

you hold individual beliefs on these things the church in the house of lords ect presents a more corporate view

Subliminal messages? Are we still on rationality here. Or indeed empirical?

I think you are bringing your own feelings to bear a bit on your interpretation of what is being said.

Because nooka, my disbelief in myself would cause me to cease to exist

That wasn't what I was saying at all, I was responding to a point Monkey trousers made, and basically trying to say that the analogy between faith and how planes work is a false one. I can take a perfectly successful flight without knowing how planes work. I do all the time. I don't beautifically at planes or anything else, what with not being Mother Teresa.

Are you this patronising in real life or do you reserve it for the internet?

Yes, grimmathenome and I disagree with the pope (and think it is beyond disgusting). However, I'm not catholic obviously and think that he should be allowed no actual influence and that the catholics should sort him out

Anyone who thinks they can control Sarah Palin is probably an idiot. Anyone who is considering voting for her ticket is probably dangerous. (Using probably in the Heineken style there).

She is a gun toting "good ole gal" not some push over, and in any case she will be voted into a position of some influence and power, so who will be doing the control? Should it happens I hope that McCain's more liberal (and often opposing) views will prevail, as they should given that he would be the actual president, unless he dies that is.

Well said Grimma. It's genocide under the guise of religious principle. Nothing new there, then.

Lol slug. Zebra crossings anyone?

When you say "the church" to whom are you referring? The Catholic Church? The Church of England? The Methodists? The Quakers? The Church of the Latter Day Saints?

These groups all have different stances on lots of things but all consider themselves to be Christian bodies. There hasn't been a "The Church" in this country since the (I think) 1533 Act of Supremacy.

I agree it's genocide under the guise of religious principle. It's evil, anti Christian and wrong in every way.

there are many terrible things (some named here that Christians have done).

It doesn't mean we are all bad - have i managed to prove at least that I'm not a cunt ?

In this country the Church is obviously the Church of England. You know the established one... the one that crowns the sovereign and to which we can all turn for baptism, marriage or funerals regardless of belief or attendance.

And "rational" and "empirical" are not the same things. As I said previously, if a conclusion can be drawn from the premises, an argument is rational. That is not the same as empirical. I brought this up because someone said faith was irrational. If they meant "not supported by empirical evidence" I entirely agree.

He is not god because on this thread he has said he does not believe in him, you cannot not beleive in yourself as you are a living thing for all to see, and that would not be belief anyway that would be knowlege

georgie you know that both the anglican and the catholic church are fundamentally opposed to abortion so I think that covers the 2 main christian groups in this country

I'm a lot more scared of the McCain elected and dying scenario than the Large Hadron collider being turned on (theres a thread on that). Palin vs Putin? Bring on the 'End Times'

Well in that case you are wrong that The Church wants abortion to be illegal. This is the General Synod's view on abortion:

"The Church of England combines strong opposition to abortion with a recognition that there can be - strictly limited - conditions under which it may be morally preferable to any available alternative."

No, it doesn't mean you are all bad. I don't think anyone has said "all Christians are evil"

BUT we should be able to express our objections to the existence and principles of organised religion - and that may include asserting that deities are the same as imaginary friends - if that is what posters genuinely believe! And the only real personal insults (as opposed to perceived ones) on this thread have been from the Christian side of the fence