To want more information before i attempt to form an opinion on WOHMs/SAHMs?

[GodzyGoesBananas]

My only experiences of WOHMs are negative ones. I am going to call them Cases as i don't want to disclose who they are to me.

Case 1: WOHM since late teens, seperated from DDs father due to violence, left DD at home alone or with a friend for fairly long periods. DD now an adult has VERY close (too close some might say!) relationship with her mum, but some serious mental baggage including security issues.

Case 2: WOHM who had severe PND and went back to work when LO was a toddler. Is upset because her LO seems more attatched to carers than to her. Issues with discipline arising (from what i can tell) from inconsistency/discrepancies between childminder/nursery/home.

Case 3: WOHM who feels forced into work because financialy they can't afford to pay the rent if she doesn't (although theoretically the family could make cut-backs, but don't want to), but struggles to pay for the childcare during holidays. Also disciplinary issues, but i think mostly from parenting style rather than anything else.

Case 2 and 3 when they talk to me often gripe about not seeing their children enough and them being more attatched to the carer. they always seem exhausted and they hardly see their partner (resulting in a split for one of them).

Please can someone enlighten me to how it can go well - how the heck does anyone manage their home, relationship and have a bond with their child(ren) whilst working full time? Do all children of working parents behave so badly even up to the teenage years? Do you have any time to yourself?

GGB, I read your Op exactly as BlueShoes did. I truly am amazed that people can find no positive role models amongst their friends.

I have SAHM mums in my social group and WOHM mums in my social group, most are happy with their lot and I certainly don't see the sclaes tipped in one direction or the other in terms of positive/negative experiences (though of course I interpret some of their experiences to suit my own bias)

There are plenty of meet ups kicking about. why not expand the social group in your area by trying to meet some local WOHM in your own area?

Okay you must excuse me I haven't read the whole thread because basically I can guarantee that most of it says you are a troll.

LOL I see your point about having bad experiences with it. Are you considering going back to work?

I went back to work in February when my DS was 20months after 2 years out of work. I returned to work for both financial and personal reasons, just felt I was going mad basically. I absolutely hate my job as a carer and am tired alot BUT I am happier in myself and my DS is fine too, I find we tend to do more when I'm not at work because that time seems more precious now than it did when we were together 24/7 IYKWIM. If I had another job I'd be really happy! It's done us wonders!!!

However. If you are looking for serious answers I can only give you my experience. Working with young children is bloody hard work unless you can (presumably) afford someone to tie up all the loose ends - school runs, inset days, etc. So that you can concentrate on one job at a time. And how well-behaved your children will become depends on so much more than whether you work or not. It depends on the childcare you provide, how much time they get to spend with you after work and their sense of how much you value them, etc. Being a parent consists of so much more than simply being there all the time. It can work, and for some parents, incl me, other people are often better more involved carers than they are. If I had been their sole carers for the entire childhoods, I suspect my 3 would have been seriously screwed up.

Just be prepared for the one who suffers most, who takes up all the slack, being you. Because IME that is often what happens. Sorry.

OrmIrian, I do think you are kind to give such a well considered and thoughtful answer. I think I'm in a particularly intolerant mood today (perhaps that's because I'm a WOHM.... oh my poor children...)

YYYYYYYYYYYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWNNNNNNNNNNN

OrmIrian, to add to your list, it also depends on the child's personality how well-behaved (or shall I say 'compliant') they are, some elements of which are inherited. As well as the interaction with the parents' personality and how compatible or explosive it is. In cases where parent and child rub each other up the wrong way (particularly as teenagers), a little respite from working outside the home is a welcome relief and affords valuable breathing space.

To the OP, don't be too quick to take the credit for compliant children or judge others for having more independently-minded ones.

Well last time I checked all kids had 2 parents so why WOHM sould get all the grief is a tad beyond me. Where is the dad in this whole debate. Surely we have moved on from the 1950's ideal housewife/mother crap havent we?

OK I work 4 days a week

we have a brilliant childminder for my 2-year old

having a bond with my dd has never seemed like a problem-I love her, she loves me, same with dh
neither of us work massively long hours so generally we are both there for bathtime and bedtime unless one of us is going out for the evening

behaviour: well she is 2, what can I say
on the whole lovely and not badly behaved but with the odd ridiculous tantrum over nothing

housework-I do some on my day off, dh and I split the rest between us over the weekend
internet shop so we don't waste time over the weekend

downsides: having to get up v. early on work days
and dh and I rarely go out together but that's because we haven't managed to track down a babysitter yet-occasionally a friend or my sister will baby-sit though

on the whole it is working fine
i am expecting number 2 and plan to go back to work after 9 months mat leave
it will undoubtedly be harder (not least financially) but still worth me working and I enjoy my job

HTH!

Ah well I did jump in with both feet first, orangina. Then wondered if perhaps I was being unkind.

Here's a story of how it can work.

I work 4 days a week. I love my job. Most of the time it more or less counts as "time to myself" because much of the time I can organise my working day as I like and it is stimulating. Yes we do need my salary but I would work even if we didn't (maybe just one day less).

I also love being at home with my children (part time). I would be more exhausted than I am now if I was at home FT with them because they are particulalry demanding ages IMO.

DH and I share childcare responsibilities. We eat supper together every night and neither of us feels resentful about doing all the earning or alternatively all the childcare/ housework.

My friends are a mix of WOHMs and SAHMs and we all get along just fine without it ever being an issue.

I think I am going to leave mumsnet because the amount of threads like this have increased since I started, EVERYTIME I log on there is another judgy judgy holier than thou thread of people making vast assumptions based on a very small sample.
Its getting me very

I've tried being a WOHM (full time, part time, freelance) and a SAHM. They all have benefits and drawbacks. There is no ideal solution, really. Weigh it up for yourself.

I work FT, so does DH. DS is well adjusted, very close and affectionate to us (and to his carers) and well behaved. We are all happy.

So in my n of one study, both parents can work outside the home and all be well.

Don't go, Elf. This is a spin off from the other nasty thread. The proliferation will end.

Hi,

I am at home f/t at present, have school age dd, dd at pre school and am pregnant.

I have worked p/t out of the home and as a childminder.

IMO - you have to decide what you think might work for your family. I do not have the answers - sorry. I like being able to take my DD to school, pick them up, be around to do activities after school and in the holidays but I do miss earning my own money/having more money. I also get bored and demotivated at times and quite often think that it would be nice to work p/t again as I would fel more motivated on my days off. I have on many occasion thought about working full time but don't think that would work for us for various reasons including covering childcare costs.

Good luck, I hope you find op posts useful and ignore the rude ones.

and am not sure how it's possible for form a definitive 'opinion' on WOHMS/SAHMs
what does that mean, you are going to make some judgement on whether children of working mums behave worse?

I think that'll take more than a thread on MN to figure out
maybe a worldwide study over several years...?

we are all different, it works differently for different people
and kids are all different too!
so there is no one answer

just try it...and see

Of course it can work - but it might not if you start off by being so negative about combining paid work with parenthood. I've always found that the key to managing is the following:

1. Finding good childcare. A statement of the obvious, but you need to be confident that your DC are happy and being well looked after. A good childminder is worth her weight in gold, and community nurseries can be excellent (especially if they have staff who stay around and don't move on). I don't have experience of employing a nanny.

1. Both parents in agreement that they are both responsible for DC - which means sharing responsibility for drop-offs/pick-ups from childcare, and picking up the slack if anything unexpected occurs (child ill, childminder ill, etc). I've seen a number of women horribly stressed by trying to fulfil their commitments at work while being solely responsible for picking up DC etc. (Obviously I'm not having a go at single mothers here - I salute them for managing so well!)

1. Agreeing some kind of flexible working arrangement with employer to fit comfortably with childcare - eg starting earlier and finishing earlier - to avoid daily stress as the end of the day approaches. And making sure colleagues, clients, anyone else you deal with at work knows when you are available - to avoid grumbles that people never know when you'll be around.

1. Not working too many hours. Obviously! And not everyone can manage it. But if you and DH can both keep a lid on your hours that makes a huge difference to family life. So much stuff in the media about WOHMs seems to assume that we are all working 12 hours a day, 5 days a week.

1. Being consistent - with employer and colleagues, as mentioned above, but also with DC and whoever is looking after DC while you work. DC will quickly understand that you will always come back, and will expect you at your usual time. I definitely think changing childcare provider is to be avoided unless absolutely necessary - keep DC where they are happy and secure (assuming you're happy with the care).

1. On the domestic front - online shopping, hiring a cleaner (if affordable! I've recently had to economise, and I MISS my cleaner!), endless 'to-do' lists, sharing housework and cooking with DH, filling the washing machine every night at bedtime and emptying it first thing in the morning, lowering one's standards.

Re children's behaviour - I have seen NO evidence that the quality of children's behaviour is affected simply by the fact of their mothers working. There are naughty children who go to nursery every day; there are naughty children whose mothers are always at home. Making assumptions is pointless.

I've taken the OP at face-value and assumed she actually wants to know how WOHMs manage. The truth is you can manage most things if you put your mind to it and work out solutions rather than obsessing about problems.

Again thanking those of you who have bothered replying politely. (Provided you aren't all hairy truckers as DH believes, lol) I am now wiser to the fact that not every WOHM is totally stressed, and maybe can offer some advice even to 'Case 2' (i really wish i had been able to tell you who she is, as that is a horrible reference).

As for why i am asking for info to form opinions - an example...
When i was very young, living with my strict Catholic parents, i came across a book my brother owned, about dinosaurs. Hidden in the pages of this literary gem (which i can't even remember the name of) was Charles Darwin's Theory of Evolution. This opinion (because that is what a theory is) changed my life - it planted the seed of interest which eventually led to me becoming an Aetheist.

The information i gain from the successful working families may eventually lead to another radical change of life (i was too afraid of losing my DH/DDs if i went out to work, and now can see i was over-reacting big time). There is no point slagging me off for generalising - i have already found myself guilty of that.

I will not read back on the previous threads because they are all so full of aggression and pickiness that they fail utterly to make any point at all, except that most of those concerned should be ashamed of themselves behaving like spoilt bullies hell bent on forcing their way of life on other people.

If you're trying to choose you have to go with your gut. If you're trying to wind people up, it may be you don't have any.

On the offchance that you're serious I'm a SAHM and I have the same problems with my girl that WOHMs have with theirs. Sometimes she's stroppy, cheeky and pushes the boundaries. Sometimes she's lovely, polite and a pleasure to be with. Just like the kids whose mums work.

I get pissed off with WOHM bashing, just as much as SAHM bashing. It's unnecessary, unpleasant and uncalled for.

Now leave it!