to leave me kids to sleep where they drop because they just WILL NOT STAY IN THEIR ROOM?

[ThatBigGermanPrison]

They are 2 and 5, still up. I have walked up those stairs so many times, I am physically exhausted. Honest it must have been at least 100 times. I have cried. I have shouted. I have had enough. Ds2 is too young to threaten(not that I haven't tried), it's not fair to let him stay up and not Ds1.

What would you do?

Because right now, they are pottering around in the front room, chatting away and playing with toys. And I just want to go to bed. But If I put them to bed, and they won't stay there, I will just be even angrier than I am now.

oh you need a strict routine, bath stories bed, and if they wont stay in bed rapid return
1st Time: Time for bed goodnight darling
2nd Time: Time for Bed
3rd Time Nothing
and so on and so on and so on..........

It could take Hundreds of times the first night, but persevere.

Also little one should be in bed first I think at about 7- 8pm leaving some special time for your eldest.

Kids need their sleep imho and there is NO WAY I would put up with this

You have my huge sympathies btw x

Am I the only person who reads kids a story then sits with them while they go to sleep? Always have - can be tiring but I think it's better than them getting over-excited and me getting angry.
They can get anxious at night time - what's wrong with keeping them calm if they're not capable of it themselves?
I don't give them loads of individual attention during the day, so this sort of makes up for it.

Well, the thing is, ds2 doesn't need as much sleep as ds1, and we did have a very very strict routine, but short of hog-tying and ball gagging both of them, I can't make them stay in their bed once they have decided not to. I have spent the past 2 weeks sitting on the landing, industriously returning ds2 to his cot and ds1 to his bed, and they just do not stay there until 10.30 at night. And now I am exhausted and fed up. I can't spend time with ds1 if I am sitting on the landing returning ds2 to his cot, I can't leave ds1 sat downstairs on his own until ds2 decides to go to sleep, because last night that was 5 hours after I initially put him to bed at 8pm.

It's better to do rapid return than to let them get up and fuck about, yes, but then, it is better to let them get up and fuck about than to slap them until they scream. Which I was getting frighteningly close to last night.

I know small children need their sleep, I'm not a moron! But how do you MAKE them sleep, short of drugging them?

I read them a nice calm story, we go upstairs, brush teeth, into bed, and by the time I am halfway down the stairs he is up and following me. So I put him back, and put him back, and if I sit with him I end up physically pushing him back into his cot as he climbs out... I have explained, and shushed and stroked, and removed myself, bu he's not scared, he's bored. He was perfectly happy to sit downstairs in the dark on his own last night, as long as he wasn't in bed!

I have also found that ds needs to be KNACKERED before he goes to bed. Bedtime is always the same time so he's not getting cumulatively chronically tired, but he needs to do something physical in order to fall asleep. I think a pp also said hers need an hour of running - something like that for us too.
If he's still ina cot, would a proper bed be an enticement to sleep? Motivation, stickers etc, would that work?

how about taking putting ds 2 in a proper bed?

I found DS was a nightmare in his cotbed. but when I changed it he went down easier.

now he's bed for 7 I read him paddington, normally a chapter but he's told in a firm voice to lay down and close his eyes, usually within about 4 pages he's dead tot he world.

(what would happen if you had both of them in the same bed, and told them to close their eyes/read it to them?) then lift the other out into his own bed iycwim?)

Wow Spandex - thats the first time i have read something i havent tried! I will tell them to close their eyes while i read to them and see if it works. Oh i do hope so

We read DS to sleep when he was about 2. He really hated being left at bedtime. We went on from reading him to sleep to as Katch says, reading him stories then just sitting in the room with him while he dropped off. I used to sit and read or do some knitting!!! He knew that I would ONLY stay if he was laying down for sleep.

DS hated being left so much that this is what we ended up with, and it was fine; instead of weeks or months or god forbid years of him screaming and getting hysterical, he had a nice calm bedtime. And it doesn't go on forever, he's six now and drops off alone (though he will still ask for us to check on him!)

TBGP why not try this approach of sitting with them with a book for you to read? Far nicer all round than all that agony IMO. And if all they can do is lay still, they DO drop off. Usually they want your company more than anything else; it's why they bother getting up all those times, isn't it.

No, they don't want my company. They want to get up and run around and play with each other. i will try the book approach, but in all honesty I think I will have to sit ON ds1. I will try it though - I have James and the Giant Peach.

My boys used to be like this. I wanted a strict bed time routine but it just did not work for them or us. So I started allowing them to play with their toys in their room or the older one reads his footall magazines.I found that this chlls them out until I decide that its lights out. Easier said than done but keep tryng. Whatever works for you. I dont care if they are not asleep as long as I cant hear or see them.

Lilymolly, that's Supernanny's routine and it works on the telly I fully intend to try it.
My son is nearly 2 and we've just put him in a bed from his cot. So far he has managed to demolish his room because it's soooooo much more exciting than sleeping. In the end last night he wore himself out and went to bed and slept until 10am
Keep the advice coming for the OP because I am keeping note of it all too

I also find it's stupid but if I read the book in a rushed and it finished quickly tone then DS plays me up - if I settle into it with him (almost hypnotic, soothing (my reading voice! lol)) then he'll drop off.

deffo recommend telling them to close their eyes thou - sometimes DS needs telling 5/6 times but in the end I say 2 choices - mummy reads and you close your eyes or you don't have a story.

he's only 2.5 so prob doesn't understand - but he knows story = more mummy!

TBGP Why not do a milky drink, then upstairs to do teeth, then a story once they're settled in bed? Maybe you could offer to read them to sleep so long as they don't get up?

Yes, they want to get up and play with eachother but really that's just diversion from the evil hour of bed. If bed is the three of you all cosy and together and having a story, there's not SO much to fight against IMO.

Also meant to say if this was me I'd avoid rapid return. As a lone parent with this level of bedtime probs I would think you'd need a hell of a lot of energy and commitment to do this - and I wouldn't fancy doing it alone. Some kids fight a damn sight harder than others too. I think it sounds grim for all. And I think there's a gentler way round. I suppose it depends what you want; if you want desperately to kiss them goodnight and leave and that's it, at this stage, then maybe it's worth it; but in my personal opinion, if you don't mind being with them during the evening for a bit, they'll grow out of it anyway soon enough.

Rapid return has never worked for me - to me it means even rapider return of ds1 down the flippin stairs. Trial and error and changing tactics with every child!

As a fellow lone parent, you have my sympathy ... hope tonight goes better, god knows I live for 7 pm and ds is only 15months.

I have read of a technique whereby you secure the bedroom door with a rope to the width just less than the width of dc's heads. That way they can open the door, so not locked in ... but they cannot get out. Also if they wreck their rooms you just leave them wrecked and they have to deal with trying to find clothes, toys etc.

NO IDEA if these are ridiculous suggestions or not as ds is not old enough for me to have got to this stage yet. Feel free to shoot them down in flames, they're not my ideas so I don't care!

What about settling them both in DS1's bed, removing most of the toys from the bedroom and sitting outside the door (to prevent escapes) with a book, internet (if laptop) until they give in, may take a while but easier than rapid return when your alone.

Both are sleeping. Ex p came round and did it. I will take no credit.

Also, both were exhausted.

I try to do it they way he does, but they just won't settle as well for me, even though it's mostly me who does it.

My 10 yo still wants me to read to her, and I'm sad that my 13yo doesn't (even tho' I sometimes used to cry when trying to get 3 of them down by myself).

In the long run, I think a peaceful bedtime makes life so much easier, and gets you Brownie points from them which makes subsequent days run more smoothly.

Maybe it's just too early for them - a few nights of laisser faire might tire them out and also generate more good feeling between you all.

Would your eldest listen to a 'contract'? and maybe take the lead of your youngest?

DS1 has been an absolute bleeder lately, waking up at 5am and charging around the house so we sat down and had a 'talk' (I've been reading how to talk so kids listen..)
I sat him down and explained that things couldn't go on the way they are, told him what I wanted, asked him what eh wanted and asked him for suggestions as to how we could make it work, he said that I would have to put a lock on his door, I said about a contract there were other suggestions that I vetoed, but only after he'd finished talking, he signed a piece of paper that says he mustn't leave his room in the morning and it's stuck to the back of his door, next to the handle. He was in his room when I got up this morning, playing quietly.

In this situation the I'd explain that I want and need them to go to bed at night, and they want to stay up so we needed to find a solution. Get a pen and paper and write down every suggestion they make, with nothing more than a 'hmm' to their suggestions, add your own, some which are a really severe, like locking you in your room, throwing away your toys so you can't play etc, then once they are all done, ask them which ones they don't like (it'll be throwing toys away and locking them in!) and scrub off ones you don't like, explaining why, 'No, you never going to bed won't work because if I don't get sleep I will be poorly (use I not you)'. See what you come up with. I have found using the written word is amazingly effective with my two over the last few days. I even got a 3 year old devil boy to tidy his bedroom without having to ask him (or repeat 30x until I do it for him) just by putting a sign in the hallway which read 'Cake making at 2:30pm, all children with tidy rooms are invited' DD read it to him and took the lead, she was my ally rather than his and it worked great.

The lock on the door was said tongue in cheeck Although as someone who isn't a 1 parent family I would do it if things got that bad. I don't mean all night, just until they went to sleep.
I have a geek 2.5yo who will never get out of bed even when awake and will sit reading or shout us

Pack all toys completely away before bedtime and remove them! I had to do this with ds.

Sounds great VictorianSqualor 1 step on would a suggestion box for things that either the children wan to do or things that are bothering them be helpful?

Glad you got a peaceful night TheBigGermanPrison would xp go in with you in the bedtime contract?

How did they sleep last night TBGP?