to feel disappointed at MIL and DPs lack of support for how I want to do things with DD?

[RGPargy]

I need to know if i'm being unreasonable or not on this.

DD is 8 months and for the last 3 months i have been introducing some baby signs to her, i.e. "milk", "more", "eat", that sort of thing. Anyway, despite his apparent enthusiasm for signing, DP has hardly ever bothered to sign to DD. So now i've said that i want to take DD to Sing and Sign classes but because i was late getting my forms back, the only class they've got available now is a Wednesday morning. I cant do this class because i've just gone back to work and will be working part time, including Wednesdays. MIL was chomping at the bit to look after DD when i returned to work so i thought that as there was a Wednesday space left, she could possibly take DD there and learn some signs herself too. Great! (or so I thought).

I phoned up MIL and asked how she would feel about taking DD to the S&S class and she said "well i wouldn't, really". When i asked her why she said that she'd been talking to her partner that morning and in so many words told me it was a load of crap and that "babies have managed to get across what they want long before that came along" and she said that she wouldn't do the signs with her either. I was quite at this because I thought she was the type of person to try different things and i thought she was quite open minded. I just thought it would be nice for DD to get out of the house and thought it might interest MIL to start doing the odd sign or two. Kinda two birds with one stone sort of thing.

AIBU about that? DP hasn't said much about but just shrugged in a "oh right" kind of way.

Another thing too that i feel i'm losing a battle on is what DD is eating. DP was raised a vegetarian and has never eaten meat or fish in his life. I am NOT a veggie and made it clear to him that i wanted DD to eat meat but she was very welcome not to eat it later in life if that was her choice. Anyway, i gave her a bit of chicken to try and he was like "eeeww she wont like that" and then because she didn't eat it (it takes time for her to accept new foods) he made a flippant comment that she was also a veggie. He then kicked up a real stink when i offered her a bit of fish (just some cod). he was saying that it was making his stomach turn etc. DD got on better with this and put it to her mouth several times although she didn't actually eat any.

Later that night, DP said he was actually starting to feel quite "funny" about DD eating meat and he more or less forbid me to give DD fish just because neither I or DP eat it! It wasn't something hugely smelly or gross, just a bit of bloody fish!! Just because i'm not keen on fish and hardly ever touch it doesn't mean that DD shouldn't eat it, does it?!!

I just feel that i am fighting a losing battle on my own with regard to the signing and the meat issues and i dont feel that i've got the support of DP or MIL on either matter.

It's got to the point where i feel really down about it and now i'm wondering if me alone just signing to DD will actually do any good or whether i should just chuck it in because no one else is going to bother anyway!

I'm so sorry this is a rather long post and thank you if you've managed to get this far.

It's your thing, don't expect it to be anyone else's. Perhaps MIL doesn't want to baby sign.
As for meat and fish give the child some protein if you wish, it's an adult choice to eat or not to eat meat/fish and your baby can make that choice when he understands the issues.

I took my ds to baby signing, and to be honest, he didn't pay any attention. He does do signs, quite a few and all very helpful in helping us communicate, but he does them because i tried to remember to use them at home. The sessions were good for me, not so much for him.

The important part of the signing is that you do it with him all the time. Over and over. and that will only be re-enforced if your DH and MIL do it too. Going to be hard work if it's only you.

So, forget the classes, especially if MIL isn't keen, buy a book or DVD and try to remember to do them at home.

I think unreasonable. SHe probably wants to take your ds out to the park to feed the ducks or to push him on the swings or whatever she has been looking forward to. She might well think the whole idea of 'sing and sign' is embarrassing and that it will be full of yummy mummies of pfbs (which may or may not be true ) To be perfectly frank, I'd feel like that myself.
More importantly, when I had a nanny I could say, 'OK, I've booked ds into music group at X' or whatever and she'd take him. But I wouldn't say that to my mum. She'd do what she'd like.
As for the veggie thing, as an ardent carnivore I think you are reasonable to feed your dd meat. But as your husband is an ardent vegetarian, he is completely reasonable in not wanting her to eat meat. I presume he finds the idea of eating meat disgusting, cruel and i
mmoral, and nobody wants their child doing something they think of in those terms. He is compromising more than you are. He isn't insisting on his way, just trying to express his unease.
People are entitled to their opinions you know! Look on the bright side, everyone adores your dd, your MIL wants to look after her while you work and your dh is prepared to be open-minded about your dd eating meat, despite his strongly held principles. YOu really are a winner here!
(FWIW I PERSONALLY agree with your MIL that non-verbal babies can express themselves remarkably well. And my kids were fairly earlyish talkers so doing signs for 18months would have been a waste of time for us - but each to their own!)

In response to Oblomov - I would have thought most people would want their children to have positive and loving relationships with the grandparents. And yes, this comes about through spending happy times together, when that time is given freely and accepted for what it is, no strings attached. And it's to do with the quality of time, not the quantity. My own grandparents lived 200 miles away, so staying with them was a real treat, it didnt happen often, but i have the happiest memories.
It is called 'childminding' when a parent uses the grandparents to provide free care while they earn. This is an entirely different thing. It puts the onus on the grandparent to be available at specific times, and to provide the kind of day to day care that the parents want - in short, it often means the grandparent revolving their own life around that of their children, at a stage in their life when they should be free to make their own decisions. You only have to look at the threads on here which crop up regularly to see that when grandparents are used like this, it often leads to friction.

Thank you Findtheriver, for your response.
I know what you mean. And I have been a MN'er for long ehough to know that you are right and that gp's and childminding are very contentious.
But I just felt that in this particular thread, it didn't constitute CM. And many posters went straight down that avenue.
I know MIL didn't want to go to 'sign'. And I appreciate that. But I didn't think asking gp to take a child to a course necessarily meant automatic Cm discussion. Look how wrong I was

You do realise dont you that if grandmother takes dd to signing class she will be able to communicate better with dd than you ? If i was MIL i too would balk at the idea ,but then i have a finely honed marketing bllsht detector that prevents me from being suckered in by such nonsense Why not let DD enjoy spending time with her grandmother doing grandmother type things like being loved within an inch of her life

8

If MIL looks after dd when you are at work she is doing you a favour. Let her decide how she spends that time. As for the veggie bit I can't comment, but your dp is bound to feel a bit weird about it if he's always been veggie. You will have to give him time.

I think YABU.

Although I believe that signing is very effective with some babies, I agree with those posters who say that it is the frequency and consistency that matter, rather than the classes. Heck if you really want the full sign and sing experience you can buy my Sign and Sing DVD that I bought from the class, or actually you can probably have it as we have no further need of it.

My mum looks after DS once a fortnight for a day, and their day goes very differently from mine. She rarely leaves the house with him, if my Dads there they will go a mile or so down the road for lunch, and she spends the day playing with him and spending time at home. It would drive me bonkers, but firstly she doesn't feel confident driving with DS on her own so can only do that when my Dad is there, secondly I think she would be a bit worried about doing something like bringing him on the bus or out in case he tries to run away.

Your MIL clearly doesn't want to go to the class with your DC and that should be fine, that is her perogative. I took DS to Jo Jingles today and as he wasn't enjoying it I found it excruciating to have to sit through, so we left half way.

Let her find her way with your DC as long as she is happy and generally well looked after then be grateful and happy that your MIL will look after her.

Don't know what to say about the veggie thing other than playing it down when your DH is around seems like the most sensitive thing to do.

Sing and Sign is absolutely great fun.

I took my DCs not with a view to learning to sign but to enjoy the lovely songs and interaction with other nippers the same age.

It's a shame your MIL wouldn't simply just enjoy going to a class with your DD where she'll have great fun. It's more about fun than actively learning. I don't remember any other mothers there being particularly bothered for their DC to sign. Mine never did - we just loved the class.

Is your MIL really so closed minded anyway? Why on eaerth can't she do as you request? I don't understand this view that she's doing you a total favour therefore will do nothing you ask with your daughter? She's benefitting greatly too, you know so don't be too grateful.

I think her attitude bodes ill for someone who will be looking after your child. Get someone else to do the childcare. Definitely. It will just piss you off in future if she simply says, "No" to things you think your DD might or might not like.

Regarding the vegetarianism, this is something you really need to discuss with your DP because your DD will pick up on his reluctance and revulsion and not try the foods that you would like her to eat. It's sending conflicting messages already. You need consistency.

Well, Sing and Sign clearly doesn't sound like her idea of fun, nor tbh, like mine. Sounds ghastly to me. I'd also rather go and feed the ducks! I realise this is just my personal preference and that other people clearly feel differently, so why can't people see that this woman is horrified by the idea of being a room with women 30 years her junior and being expected to both sing and sign, which she might find utterly mortifying and which she clearly believes is a waste of her time. Why can't she enjoy her grandchild in peace? Why is it a 'attitude' if she doesn't hop to it and do as she is told?
I feel sorry for all these grandmas being bossed about by their DILs! I bet they never bossed their MILs about!

I'm not sure whether you are being unreasonable or not!

I too am a huge fan of signing - did it with DD1 and DH thought it was all a bit pointless, nursery also didn;t do it with her (however they had more than mine to look after so that didn't bother me!) However when DD1 did her 1st sign DH totally changed his mind and has been much more into it with DD2 and we both think it is worth the effort.

The girls chilminder's son has also picked up signs from them and does them now which I thingk is really cute. So don;t be worried about it not working if your're the only one doing it. And I'm afraid you can;t expect your MIL to go along to classes, however you are right there was no need for to be so rude. If she's not yet started looking after your DD and this has come up already are you sure she's the right person to be looking after her for you, there's a lot to be said for paying someone to do the job as they have to follow your wishes - and I'm not talking about signing classes here.

With the food thing thats tough. You probably need to sit down with your DP and remind him of the conversatiosn you had before DD came along - not to force him to change his mind but to have a general discussion about where you go from here. It may be that she eats meat and fish when he's not around, but then he has not not make comments about them.

Good post Ms Demeanor

Baby classes aren't for everyone and tbh they are 90% for the mothers benefit rather than the babies, and I say this as someone who has been weed upon by a very young DS at every single Baby massage class we went to. My mum has been fantastic about not commenting on any aspect of my parenting that she secretly disapproves of, but I could tell from the way she asked questions about the signing classes and the massage ones that she thought each of them were a big fat waste of time.

It is also a reasonably big ask to take her. Even though its only an hour, it means that the child has to be ready to leave the house at a certain time, make sure that she isn't going to be tired and cranky during class time, and arrange whatever food is required afterwards. Frankly unless the grown up is at least neutral about going, then it is a heck of a lot of effort for not much gain.

God yes, baby massage, what a pile of crap! (insert my personal experience emoticon)
I only went with my PFB because I was lonely and a bit scared at home and wanted to see other fat, haggard women and talk about crap and eat cake.
And I'm sure 90% of the other women were the same and the other 10% were there with their mate feeling smug that they weren't lonely and haggard.
As a grandma I cannot imagine a worse place to be.

Count yourself lucky your MIL wants to look after your DD at all. Mine lives close but would never help us out in that way. Even if I were desperate, which sometimes I am. To be getting into arguments about this-and-that precise activity at this early stage doesn't seem very gracious, tbh. And it bodes badly for the future, when I am sure much more important issues of child rearing will arise.

I can't comment on the vegetarian issue, if only because I think that people who voluntarily forgo bacon sandwiches are bonkers.

I'm neutral on the Sing & Sign tbh. It's never appealed to me much, but if in 20 or 30 years time I'm looking after a gc & the parents want me to take him or her, I'd ptobably be willing to give it a go. But then I'm a teacher & we are fairly well conditioned to looking/feeling a right prat , which, as MsDemeanour says, may well be your MIL's concern.

On the veggie thing, I think YA definitely NBU. If your dh has a problem with your dc eating meat/fish, he should discuss it with you & the two of you should agree what to do. Pulling faces when you offer a new food to your child is not helpful, whatever it is!

I'd don't think your MIL should have been so dismissive of your feelings. However i can see it from her point of view. She probably just wants to spend some time doing what she wants with DS. Plus a lot of these classes are there for the mums esp. new mums to make friends so your MIL may feel a bit left out.

You and your Dp need to sit down and talk about what you want to do with your Dd. You are both her parents.

oblomov, if you think most grandparents want to spend quality time and have a loving relationship with their grandparents you can think again

my MIL has no interest in my 2, i'd love her to care but she's too selfish to bother

and when grandparents provide free childcare it is childminding by another name as so many daughters/sons leave their kids with the grandparents with the kids A LOT, so they can work, not just the odd hour or half day etc.

Hi RG!!

MIL - She's obviously not open to the idea of the signing and there's probably no point trying to force the issue with her. (Personally I've never bothered with it, though I've heard it can help to develop a child's speech more quickly, I just couldn't be arsed ) I know your MIL had already changed her mind about helping you with childcare earlier, leaving you to find a childminder at relatively short notice, which I think was unreasonable of her.

You might recall I'm veggie but DH definitely isn't, however I have no problem at all in feeding both my children meat. So YANBU on this issue. I think it's important for them to have a varied diet whilst growing up, and when they're older they can make up their own minds. I'm not sure what DD would do without her burger at farmers' market at the weekends!! I do make sure it's good quality, free range etc, which helps ease my conscience, and it's probably better for them anyway. Maybe you should discuss this issue with DP: if you're preparing DD's food, then she can have meat, if it's him then he doesn't have to.

Hi everyone

Thank you SO much for all your replies. I have found them very interesting and they have thrown up some valid points, as well as invalid ones!

I would just like to make a couple of points:

With regard to meat eating, i just wanted to point out that DP and I did discuss the issue when i was PG and i told him i would go along with what he wanted but he said it was fine for DD to eat meat. His repulsion I think is mainly with fish and not necessarily with meat itself.

With regard to MIL not wanting to go to groups, well i'm afraid i have to disagree. She is willing to go along to "Bounce and Rhyme" at her local library and has even looked into going to another group too so i dont think she's worried about being in group situations with other mums and her being the only grandmother. If she can go to bounce and rhyme, what's wrong with S&S as it's very very similar except with a few more signs!

I agree that it is her right to NOT go to anything if she so wishes and i do not dispute that. My main issue and what has hurt me the most (on hindsight) was her attitude when i mentioned it.

DP told me that he'd chatted to MIL today on the phone and the S&S came up as she was hoping i'd not been too upset at her saying no to going. He said that she'd also given him the same sort of "it's rubbish" attitude and he was surprised that she'd been so closed minded about it all. We said that maybe it was because back in the days when she was bringing up babies, the only babies that used sign language were the ones with learning difficulties or the deaf. MIL is adamant that DD is "forward" so maybe she finds it offensive? Who knows.

I also confessed to DP that i was very gutted that we missed all the spaces in the classes that i COULD do, due to not having the money to pay for the class at the time that enrolment was taking place.

Hi Jet!! Seeing as i prepare ALL the food in the house i guess that means i get a say in what DD eats!!

Well, I'm a signing veggie, so here's my perspective.

As a previous poster said, you don't need a class to do baby signing, what is important is that you use it in everyday life and are consistent with it. When I introduced it with my DD1, everyone around me was dismissive about it and I was the only person who did bother doing the signing to her. Yet that didn't matter a bit because she soon signed back to me and her vocab was amazing... she learnt over a 100 signs and was extremely communicative. Then of course, everyone else could see that it worked and joined in too. Even my mother in law who initially disregarded it told me that she told random strangers about how good it was and how they should do it with their baby. I think it is one of those things that sometimes has to be seen to be believed.

As for the veggie thing... I think I agree with your hubby on this one. Either way you are inflicting something on your child (to be veggie or to eat meat) whatever decision you make you are making that decision for your child, and it is not a decision to be held forever... so just because your child does not eat meat now, does not mean that he can't eat meat tomorrow, next year or so on. Remember that you are only making a decision until she can dedcide for herself... you are not condemning her to a life of vegetarianism! But I do understand perhaps where your hubby is coming from. When you don't eat meat (as I don't) you do start to reflect more on where that meat (particularly reformed / crappy meat) has come from and what it contains (all those antibiotics that are pumped into animals etc) and the thought of putting all that into a baby's mouth is quite gross to me. As a meat eater, it is probably something you never think about, but I get quite grossed out about the thought of giving my children gelatine for example! So our compromise is that our daughters eat fish but no meat. I don't eat fish, but it is easy to get those little portions that I can just microwave. I have to say that the benefits of a veggie diet is amazing. My daughters will happily tuck into all their veggies - broccoli, spinach, cauliflower etc etc, no problems. My eldest (almost 5) happily eats uncooked broccoli as a snack. People always comment on how well they eat their veggies and I'm like "they have no choice - they're veggie!". But seriously, they happily eat lentils, nuts and seeds, quorn, a whole range of foods and I am sure it is because they are veggie that they have to have such a wide and varied diet. My eldest says her favourite food is salad, bless her! Look on the vegetarian website and it lists exactly how much of each food type you should give your child each day. I have it pinned up in my kitchen and use it as a rough guide to ensure my DDs have a healthy diet and it seems to work a treat.
HTH

Thanx Elkat.

So far i have been very consistent with the signing. As i said earlier, i have been signing to DD since she was around 5 months and i sign to her all the time (for the signs that i know, anyway!). My Sing and Sign DVD turned up today too so i put that on and we sat and watched it today. She seemed to really enjoy it, which was nice!

DP i think will be of the view that it is crap til he is proven otherwise, i.e. until he sees her signing back to me.

I can see your POV with regard to meat too. I would never give DD the reshaped/rechopped crap because i dont eat it myself. The antibiotics are a bit of an issue tho aren't they. Perhaps i should go organic?

My dh scoffed too.He saw the benefits and we never looked back if anything he does it more than me with numnber two- he is a convert.

I had many grandmothers who came to my classes to be convinced, many of them were anti signing if I am honest, they soon changed ther minds when they saw the older ones chatting away.

And for what it's worth I have never heard or seen a child who's speech was in any way delayed because they signed that is just ridiculous, how could you possibly know when a child was ever going to speak anyway. Golden rule of signing is it is always accompanied with speech so you are encouraging the child to communicate/speak.

Have fun if you stick at it you will really see the rewards. My dd has only just turned one and she is signing in sentences. This morning she saw a frog on her new toothpaste and was very excited and signed (whilst jabbering in baby talk) Mummy, look,what, frog, like, book.

Her fave bedtime story is about a frog called Fitz (and I always sign and ask her "what" to the differnt animals! So she was telling me "Look mummy a frog like in my book" When I agreed with her the look on her face. It was priceless!

She is a genius I tell you!