to think that Cbeebies is sexist

[noonki]

I have 3 DS's and get so annoyed at the portrayal of girls and women on Cbeebies.
The main things that rile me are

No. 1 - the token girls (upsa-daisy from In the Night Garden and Wendy in Bob the Builder for example)

No. 2 - The overload of leading males (Fireman sam, tommy zoom, bob the buider, pingu, sportacus, tellytubbies and the list can go on and on)

No. 3 - the amount of pink and frillyness worn by the girls (eg - The tweenies, upsadaisy, etc)

There are a few exceptions but only a few - check out the Cbeebies character page and just do a quick comparision...

does anyone else agree or am just feeling lost in my house of boys?

Excellent post c'est la vie. The BBC has the luxury of being able to make programming decisions that incorporate ideas of social responsibility, equality and inclusion that commercial broadcasters just don't have. I think on the whole they do a pretty good job of it on CBeebies.

Interesting post, cestlavie. But I suspect it's not as simple as 'small children wouldn't accept lead female cartoon characters'.

It reminds me of the old line magazine eds used to trot out about black cover models not selling. The Vogue Black issue (with Black cover stars) has become a must-have and shops are desperately scrambling for extra copies...

What the industry (any industry) insists are universal truths often aren't, really. Just as claims that 'boys are innately more aggressive therefore better suited to exciting jobs' are prejudice and cultural norms rather than actual truth.

(Btw, I used to be a magazine ed, and never put a Black model on the cover - mine was a very specific market, though, and the agencies never offered us a Black model. Probably because they didn't think we'd use them. So it turns into a self-fulfilling prophecy. The Vogue Black issue has made me wonder how it would have worked out if we used a Black model.)

Hi noonki, I don't have time to read your thread (sorry, at work) but wanted to say that I have thought CBeebeis was weighted towards boys for a long time e.g. Sid, Andy, Chris and Pui. Viv Groskop wrote about this in The Guardian too: here

TV is a long way away from representing people from all walks of life (race, class as well as gender) stereotypically or proportionately.

Children need much more than telly to give them a rounded view of the world and I won't rely on TV do help me do that job.

Think is, edam, while broadcasters and magazine publishers are solely concerned with immediate profit, they just won't take the risk.

This is why the BBC is so important, imo, because they are able to go against the commercial grain, and possibly even shift the norm away from the glossy vapid stereotypes that you inevitably end up with when profit is the only driver.

Thing is

I have 4yo twin boys and favourite characters include Thomas the tank engine, Bob the Builder, Pingu, Winnie the Pooh, Dora the Explorer and Peppa Pig.

Gender does not come into it.

It is true that you see a lot of Dora, Peppa and Lola everywhere on merchandise. So perhaps things are moving on.

noonki - I totally agree with you. In fact it's one of the (many) reasons I have now banned cbeebies!

It's depressing to see gender stereotypes being perpetuated, in fact the younger the audience the mroe depressing in some ways. eg Iggle Piggle wants to take a ride on the fun train the Ninky Nonk but all Upsy daisy wants to do is look at the pretty flowers [sighs deeply].

Iorek: you're right. Certain female characters are becoming more popular although it's worth noting that they're also cartoons rather than based on live-action. Will that trend continue? Who knows. If they're successful enough, then probably.

edam: you're right to an extent, but if you've worked in the sector you'll know how it goes. When companies are looking at investment decisions, they typically prioritise lower risk reasonable returns over higher risk more rewarding returns. A kids TV company like HIT may choose one female led cartoon as it's "high risk/ high reward" project but it'll underpin with several "low risk/ low reward" projects featuring established character types. I'm not arguing incidentally, that they shouldn't do more to promote female characters but just recognising that in an investment making decision context they're unlikely to.

That it might make more money doesn't make it less sexist though does it? Surely the other reason that cartoon/animation type programs sell well is to do with dubbing - these programs must be much easier to repackage for many markets. Also for the younger age group I would have thought it is as much about what parents and friends are prepared to buy for the child as what they express a preference for. It's a pity that none of the merchandising comes in a less "gendered" form - ie why are Dora bags always pink?

Nooka: that may be true but the point is that the factors driving it are economic rather than sexist. Arguably, the economic imperative simply reflects a society that prefers to see men and women which traditional roles and which demands products and programming in this vein. If parents were to refuse to let their children watch or buy these sorts of products and programming, you can bet that the commercial producers would switch their content output accordingly. If people want programming to change, then it's up to them. Commercially run companies aren't going to lose money to inspire social change.

Cartoons are easy to repackage but on the whole (with the exception of a few universal characters from Disney and Nickelodeon) most countries prefer locally produced programming - it's not just the dubbing which makes it local, but the contexts, the characters and the situations. What is key is the amount of merchandising and DVD opportunities they create. In the case of, for example, HIT Entertainment (home of Thomas, Bob, Fireman Sam and various others) only 7% of its revenue comes from TV; 44% comes from merchandising, 40% from DVDs and videos and the balance from stage shows.

I guess so. As we have just moved to the US we are noticing the programmes that are the same more than those that are different, I guess, they are all non live action (eg Backyardigans, Blue's Clues, Dora, Wonder Pets) and have been redubbed with the exception of Dora. ds also likes Pokemon etc, which has been redubbed from the Japanese.

Nooka, tell me about it! Tink loves Noddy, most Noddy stuff is for boys - Mum got her a nice set for her birthday with Noddy and Tessie Bear and the top was pink, I was well impressed! She also loves Roary (can you tell she watches Milkshake?) but can you get Roary for girls? My nephew loves Peppa, but only stuff with George on is aimed at boys.

I know that colour doesn't matter, but Tink is a very pink girl - she will play with her cousins cars but sorts out the pink ones!