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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think that Cbeebies is sexist

140 replies

noonki · 26/07/2008 21:08

I have 3 DS's and get so annoyed at the portrayal of girls and women on Cbeebies.
The main things that rile me are

No. 1 - the token girls (upsa-daisy from In the Night Garden and Wendy in Bob the Builder for example)

No. 2 - The overload of leading males (Fireman sam, tommy zoom, bob the buider, pingu, sportacus, tellytubbies and the list can go on and on)

No. 3 - the amount of pink and frillyness worn by the girls (eg - The tweenies, upsadaisy, etc)

There are a few exceptions but only a few - check out the Cbeebies character page and just do a quick comparision...

does anyone else agree or am just feeling lost in my house of boys?

OP posts:
SheSellsSeashellsByTheSeashore · 27/07/2008 22:29

gener association is actually picked up the home by copying role models (parents/siblings etc) and not tv. at very young ages dcs dont regocnise the difference between the sexes and therefore the strongest role models are those they see most often, usually the mother, which is why lots of very little boys like dollys and will happily have a go of mummys lipstick.

but when they get older they start to differentiate between the sexes and little boys look to male role models to copy behaviors, whoch is why dollies and teashops etc, become too girly and they start playing with cars and displaying typically male behaviors.

men are naturally more agressive than woman due to higher levels of testosterone and will therefore be more attracted to jobs that are more active/dangerous etc such as policeforce, fireman, builder which why there is more men in these jobs.

my dd wants to be a builder because of the female builder in bob the builder. she associates to her because they are both blonde. i dont think programming while it may seem sexist really influences the way children view the role of men and women in society.

if any part of tv does that it has got be advertising. dd1 loves cars and robots etc but has recently been asking if its okay for her to play with them because they are 'boys toys'. she thinks this because the advertsing for them is aimed at boys.

of course i have assured her that it is okay and that the tv is silly. girls can have robots if they want to and boys can play with dollys if they want to.

bigpolarbear · 27/07/2008 22:33

Nah I don't think it's sexist, it's shite but not sexist, lol.
Get them onto playhouse Disney, that Bunnytown is damn funny, or a bit of spongebob, much better for them.

iheartdusty · 27/07/2008 22:34

neolara, I have heard that before, and it makes me wonder why girls don't mind that there is a boy character in the lead.

is it because the girls are more focused on other aspects of the story,

or because they are naturally more accommodating and accepting,

or because everywhere in the media (ie advertisements, films, trailers) men/boys are often shown doing more active and varied things than girls/women?

nooka · 27/07/2008 23:32

Yes is it girls don't mind, or girl's don't turn over?

nooka · 27/07/2008 23:33

Do you really need aggression to be a builder?? Sorry, but I think that is crap.

SheSellsSeashellsByTheSeashore · 27/07/2008 23:34

no you dont need agression but its a more active job with lots pof knowcking down walls etc so it means that men are more likely to be attracted to that sort of job than women

TenaciousG · 27/07/2008 23:43

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

nooka · 28/07/2008 00:20

Absolutely. I read to my children together, and I make sure that there is a good balance of heros and heroines. ds seems to enjoy reading about Dido Twite as much, or more than dd in fact. Oh, and JK is quite a business woman isn't she? Phillip Pullman doesn't seem to have a problem with having a heroine, although of course he hasn't made such a huge pile of dosh from his books...

madamez · 28/07/2008 00:28

Well I do worry about this a bit. Because while cbeebies itself does carry a reasonable range of competent female characters (nina neuron, auntie mabel, the women in balamory) when you go shopping for clothes for your DC, all the character-themed clothing is brutally divided on gender lines: you get Bob the Builder kit for boys but no Wendy equivalent for girls (and no Bob the Builder clothing for girls at all, nor crayons, books etc). So you have the series that both genders watch, with characters of both genders, but the merchandise pretty much says Not for Girls.

madamez · 28/07/2008 00:41

And I wonder how much the 'girls will accept a male character easier than boys will accept a female character' isn;t more to do with how deeply ingrained is the idea that male is normal, good, acceptable and female less desirable, less good, inferior (so it's OK for girls to like and emulate boys, horrifying for boys to emulate girls).

nooka · 28/07/2008 00:55

I agree madamez. There is still a huge amount of pressure on girls to be girls (tomboys occasionally allowed as sort of honorary boys) and boys to be boys. There are very few gender neutral merchandise options for this age group.

madamez · 28/07/2008 00:59

I try with DS ( a few months ago when everyone at playgroup was getting out the clothes from the dressing up box I asked him if he wanted to be a fireman, a pirate or a princess - he said 'princess' so I put him in the Snow White outfit much to his delight) but lately he has been saying quite randomly 'that's for boys, that's for girls'. So I am going to have a word with his nursery...

handlemecarefully · 28/07/2008 01:02

Op makes perfectly valid point. Culturally - cbeebies included, women are done down (and indeed dumbed down). You really have to be a bit 'fick' not to see this

Dh jokes with ds that when we stay at (name dropping) Mandarin Oriental in NY during the summer it would be funny if ds turned up in Spiderman clobber(only funny in dh's world ).

Dd asks plaintively which 'character' she could be? (has to be something American and preferably with New York relevance)- all we could come up with is the sappy dippy princess in Enchanted. DD wants to know "Why aren't their any girl superheroes mummy?"

nooka · 28/07/2008 02:31

I've had that one too. Luckily we had PowerPuff girls showing when dd was of an age to be bothered about that sort of thing, and was happy to choose between them. I liked the Incredibles on that front too, as Elastigirl aka Mrs Incredible was so cool

gingernutlover · 28/07/2008 07:59

pingu IS a boy, the episode where he wee's on the floor because he misses the toilet ...............

pointydog · 28/07/2008 08:07

Pingu is a boy

La-La and Po are girls. 100% certain

tuttuttut · 28/07/2008 08:34

I can't believe so many people on this thread don't believe that people are socially conditioned from a very young age. Mostly by the media, ie television. It's the small 'insignificant' things like these characters young children watch that give them a lasting understanding about how the world works. It annoys me alot. That and trucks, buses, diggers etc on clothes for my ds. If these stereotypes were in adult programmes to the same extent i think people would be angry.

TenaciousG · 28/07/2008 10:05

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

rebelmum1 · 28/07/2008 10:19

Oh dear, you need to turn it off and do some activities instead.

rebelmum1 · 28/07/2008 10:25

I believe kids are socially conditioned from an early age, which is why I turn the shit off.

cestlavie · 28/07/2008 10:38

Hmmm. Personally I think there are two points to make.

Firstly, in absolute terms, I'd say that there is a reasonably equal balance between male and female leads overall. If you disagree, look through a typical day?s schedule (like today). Look at the bedtime hour (their most popular hour I imagine) ? 2 out of the 4 programs have lead females (Mama Mirabelle and 64 Zoo Lane), one arguably has a lead female (Charlie & Lola ? well Lola always seems to be the main one to me anyway!) and the other is non-specific (Rubber-Dubbers).

The second point, however, is critical. Whilst women/ girls seem to take the lead on live-action programming (e.g. Me Too, Balamory, Nina & Neurons, Green Balloon club) and to be fair in many non-traditional female roles (e.g. bus driver, scientist, taxi driver) the majority of lead cartoon characters, on the other hand, are invariably male (e.g. Postman Pat, Lunar Jim, Bob the Builder) in traditional male roles which appeal to children (e.g. fireman, astronaut, builder).

Why is this? Well, if you've ever looked at the economics of children?s TV, program makers make nothing (and in fact generally lose money) on the programmes themselves - they make their money in DVDs, merchandising and licensing. Any economically motivated children?s TV producer has to develop programming and characters which therefore will sell DVDs and particularly merchandise - invariably these are cartoon characters because (a) they consistently appeal to children across both sexes and ages and (b) the adaptability of the franchise (i.e. how many types of merchandise you can get out of it) enables more spin-off products. All the major children?s TV companies (e.g. HIT, Chorion, Entertainment Rights) center their portfolio on cartoon characters which sell well to a mass audience. Only a non-economically motivated program maker (e.g. the BBC) can afford to make loss-making live-action children?s television.

What this tells me, at least, is a few things. Firstly, children (in general) prefer cartoon characters in stereotypical roles ? if they didn?t, then the children?s TV companies wouldn?t make the merchandise for them. They only produce these programs because they were profitable. If live-action female-led programming was more profitable, they?d do that instead but it?s not. We can debate the rights and wrongs, but that is the case at the moment. Secondly, this is not a sexist decision but an economic decision. If they thought a female zookeeper character would outsell Fireman Sam they would produce a program featuring one ? these companies are all about profits. Thirdly, cartoons are likely to be the dominant/ most popular form of kid?s programming for the moment ? they appeal to children and offer the most flexible and attractive merchandising opportunities. Finally, the BBC is clearly flying the flag for women and (relatively) egalitarian programming ? look at the BBC produced programs and it?s clear that they have far more women in major roles than other kids? TV producers (although this is because they?re publicly funded and can afford the losses on the programs).

rebelmum1 · 28/07/2008 10:41

here here don't rely on TV to give your child a balanced view of the world, they are interested in making cash from them and you. Wake-up and smell the coffee.

SheSellsSeashellsByTheSeashore · 28/07/2008 10:50

madamez if you worry about the clothing issue here just copy me we dont do girls clothes and boys clothes in this house. clothes are clothes end of. my dd has quite a range of 'boys' clothes atm because she likes dr who, and all the clothing for that is male.

she has the coat, the pj's, the trainers and even the underwear. she is getting her bedroom decorated that way soon having shunned the pink we thought she would like.

my young nephew left my house wearing a pink flowery dress last time he was here. my neice turned up in a dress so dd1 decided that she and dd2 would wear dresses when my nephew realised he was different and that dd1 and my nicece were making a huge fuss about thier dresses he started to cry and point to a dress i had in my ironing pile so i let him wear it. i dont think his dad was happy but nephew was over the moon.

we do the same with toys if bob the builder is what dd1 wants its whats she gets, regardless of wether they do a wendy version.

rebelmum1 · 28/07/2008 11:00

I think it's not so much as how you dress them and what toys you buy as what you do with them. My dd helps make things for the house, using tools, does lots of running about, football, games and activities and wears clothes that are suitable for the occasion. You are the best example to follow, make sure cooking and diy tasks are shared.

rebelmum1 · 28/07/2008 11:01

Equally she loves playing with dolls and dressing up.