To be sick, sick, sick of the way women are portrayed in the media

[Janos]

A comment on a thread I posted recently got me thinking about this.

Just looking at women's mags for example, who are some of the worst offenders. A woman's appearance is never ever 'good enough' and is constantly picked at. She's either too fat or too thin or her knees are too knobbly or fingernails are too pointy or some such shite.

The endless pushing of stupid bloody DIETS.

On TV, women who are bolshy or aggressive or not 'nice' and feminine'(for which read passive doormat) are always punished. OK, not always but my god it happens a lot.

Oh yeah, and films. Why don't we have a female version of Indiana Jones? Why is the man always the one who gets to have fantastic adventures?

And in newspapers. I'm thinking of the coverage of those two awful cases last year, Levi Bellfield and Mark Dixie - media full of reports commenting on how their behaviour could be traced back to their mothers. Yet again, women are to blame. Err, what about their fathers - aren't they equally responsible? And then reports on John Hogan...how his wife MUST have had some responsibility for what happened.

Men's magazines aren't much better. Women are sneered at and belittled if they aren't 'hot' (god that word bloody well pisses me off). If they ARE 'hot' they are patronised and objectified and treated like they don't have a brain.

Why must our behaviour and appearance be endlessly critcised and picked apart?

OK, rant over. I feel a bit better now

My daughter has no shortage of positive female role models, starting with me, my sisters and my female friends (oh and I am sure the mothers of her friends too). I have many female colleagues who I admire and look up to, and I'm sure my daughter will find role models. I think that this is more of an issue for many boys. I do agree re. the women's magazines and sleb stuff, but these are predominantly aimed at and bought by women, and if they are successful it is because women (apparently) like this sort of thing. Why I cannot fathom, but I don't think this can really be blamed on the media alone. My mother brought us up in the women's lib era (although she loved being a (mostly) SAHM and did her best to teach us that was brought the most fulfillment in life). The outcome for me was that I grew up being very uncomfortable celebrating anything vaguely feminine about myself (indeed I really wanted to be a boy for years). I think there has to be a balance where it is OK to be both feminine (if you want to be) and achieve whatever you want in life.

Janos - sizes have expanded. I think what is now a 12 would have been a 16 in old money.

As for women's magazines, why read them? We do this to ourselves.

hi scottishmummy! i agree with you completely that whole lot of other factors influence development, such as education, socio-economic circumstances, genes, environment, religion, politics, culture etc but in the western society it seems that the next generation of females aspire to be pop stars or models rather than nurses or teachers, maybe i am being synical but it does seem that way and the media either contiously or subcontiouslt influences most decisions that we make in life, from the food we eat to were we live to what we read etc. it stinks

I agree with this all so much. I had a long conversation with my Dh about it after going to the gym with him where the video screens were showing "hottest FHM video babes" or something, and he commented that what was being shown in a gym was basically the soft porn of his childhood.

He said he also hates how it's assumed that men are this dumb that they can be titilated simply by a pretty girl washing a car in a bikini and he finds it insulting that men are thought of in this way by the media.

I feel really strongly about so much of this as a woman and I really fear for women of the future who are basically being shown the message by the media that WAG or lapdancer is a legitimate lifestyle choice.

I recommend to all my friends "The Handmaid's Tale" by Margaret Atwood. It should be prescribed reading for all 11 year olds.

Gosh what a wide reaching thread.

I think women should disagree with each other and be sharp and harsh when needed. I don't want to pussyfoot around just because we all have vaginas. But I think there should be solidarity sometimes and we should support each other when it matters. Which brings me to my last point.

More than tits and arses in mags I care that my daughter is likely to be paid less for doing her job than my son even if they do the same job, and that's if she gets it when she is likely to be less favoured than him. I am concerned that my son will have less support and opportunity to raise a family or even care for his children in the first place because of working practices.

Funnily enough I have never felt even vaguely "discriminated" against in any way in my working life and I work in a relatively male dominated area.

But it's all the other insidious things - women's mags where women are too fat or too thin or just the avalanche of beauty products constantly advertised. Plus how it's becoming the norm to be waxed, polished and tinted all the time.

But I don't think it's men doing it, I really think it is women competing against each other, but instead of this being healthy and leading to women mentoring other women etc, it's just about who is thinner or has a more even tan. It's really awful.

it's all about feeding women's insecurities to make them buy more products from the companies that advertise in the magazines, isn't it?

My biggest bugbear is the adverts for Heat magazine (or something similarly trashy) that suggest women have nothing to talk about if they don't read it to get the latest "sleb goss" - as if that was the be all and end all of women's interests! And yet, there is a sizeable percentage of women for whom that is the case - it IS their main interest; and I think that proportion is growing because of all the mediocre sleb crap that the media is filled with.

But I think the Ts and As in magazines and inequality in the workplace are two sides of the same coin. The way women are portrayed in the media is an issue for me because of this.

Not much has changed since the days of coutly love. Sleb culture is not really about who's hot or not, it's about money and power, just as it was in the time of Elizabeth I. IMO Paris Hilton is fairly unattractive, but because of her money she is some sort of icon in the meeja world. Same for Madonna, Anna Wintour etc... power and beauty become conflated via "style".

TBH I find Harpers and Queen more offensive than Heat, with H+Q's double-page spreads on debutante balls and the 18th birthday parties of the landed gentry. At least Heat can laugh at itself.

Trouble is, the media reflects society as it is, and reinforces certain stereotypes. How to break this vicious cycle? I don't know.

Difference between Tomb Raider and Indie Jones is that within about a day of the first Tomb Raider coming out on PC, someone had designed a mod for download that stripped Lara Croft naked... and it went on from there. ;)

'I'm afraid it all passes me by. I think if you're confident in yourself as a person, your gender is irrelevant.

And in most TV adverts, men get treated like gormless, incompetent idiots.'

Totally agree Desi

I never buy women's magazines. Or any kind of magazines actually. I watch very little television. I don't give a flying toss about what the media says I should look like. But guess what? I still have a feeling that to look lovely I have to be the size of Kate Moss. Why? I'm not stupid or downtrodden, I have a reasonable amount of self-confidence. But I think that images and role models are so engrained that you could live on an iceflow and thousand miles from land and still want to be thinner/have bigger t*ts/shinier hair.

How to avoid that for my DD? DD and I were chatting about her class and the subject of size came up. I had to suddenly change the subject because there are loads of overweight girls in her class and I didn't want to add to the (so far) mild interest she has in her size by suggesting there was anything wrong with being big . It's a minefield.

But as a mother, you are your daughters first role model, she takes her cues from you.
I don't have these magazines in my house and my husband and I treat each other respectfully.
What worries m e more than mgazines are rap videos, with all the girls cavorting around their pimp in bikinis. That really pisses me off, esp after women have fought so hard for equality.
But then the media isn't about any kind of reality that I recognise
There are some terrible parents out there who bring their children up very badly, some of these are mothers and I don't have a problem with them being criticised.

Good thread - I don't read women's mags either, but the Guardian's as bad as any - and totally hypocritical - with its nasty little columns (yes, by female journalists) sneering at the clothes, haircuts and bodies of any woman in the public eye, from "celebrities" to politicians.

I dream of a total ban on this kind of journalism! yeah, dream on.

Agree entirely with sentiments of the OP.

Can I just add my own personal bugbear? - when newspapers describe women in terms of their hair colour:

"The victim was a 22-year old blonde"

"The MP was seen at a restaurant with a mystery brunette"

WHY DO WE CARE ABOUT HER FLIPPING HAIR COLOUR???

Look out for this - it happens ALL the time in newspapers - and not just the crappy ones! And needless to say, men are NEVER described in these terms.

It makes me SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO angry!

It is possible to be a female journalist - and one who writes for women's mags - yet frequently get slagged off on MN for Outrageous Feminist Views, you know, ahem.

Agreed with OP on most points, but re "Why don't we have a female version of Indiana Jones?"

We do! Her name is Lara Croft. That movie was a great adventure

but many women buy these magazinesa, boost their circulation, and generate interest in salacious stories

frankly i have no idea why anyone would want to read about BB but obviously someone does. or which plastic titted fembot is dating which footballer?

be your own rolemodel, set your own benchmarks of behaviour and expectations

we can shape the morals, conduct,expectations of our children.

we can say no to the media and resist its pernicious influence.honestly we can

LittlePeanut - that frustrates the hell out of me too. They never describe the blokes as "a strapping blond" or "a muscular red head". Women are reduced to looks and age alone by the media. I used to read the DM at the weekend (cue villagers with pitchforks) and stopped recently because I was so damned sick of the mysogyny. We are guilty for all of the ills of the world because we love our children too much/too little. Men are the ones who start wars for goodness sake (but probably because they were/were not breastfed or were loved too much/too little .

My DD is 10 months old and I'm always telling her how strong and clever she is (in addition to how lovely and beautiful she is too!). When DD was born, DH was saying how when if we have a DS at any point, he would love to take him to the car auctions etc. This had me so cross. I told him the fact that our DD had a vagina in no way changed his relationship with her. He should take her to the car auctions too. He took this on board and when we discussed it again, we realised that he'd had this kind of conditioning from his own dad. Grrr!!!

Yes exactly TSAM.

The very fact that "blonde", "brunette" or redhead" are used as nouns in this context pisses me off!

Surely we should say "Her hair is blonde"

NOT

"She is a blonde"

It is like saying "She is a Downs" rather than "she has Down's Syndrome".

What is implied is that being blonde (or having Down's syndrome) is what DEFINES that person. They ARE their hair colour, or their disability.

loads of people have said lara croft, but that was a few years ago now.
can anyone name any OTHER female adventurers?

for men - indie, bond, bourne, and how about all the superheroes? spidey? superman? etc etc

I love films, and also play games, and its pitiful that I feel pleased when there is a tough female character. They are so few and far between that I notice them.

but i hate those tokenistic KickAss female heroes.does it really matter?

i am untraumatised that spiderman was a man you know

or never wanted to be a cat because of catwoman.

YANBU - even the women's sections in the broadsheets wind me up.

yes but I'm afraid I dislike the women who try to make money by living up to these stereotypes, who have no talent, if we didn't buy the crap they would be out of a job.

I don't think women believe all that stuff because they want to. Advertising companies spend millions and millions and millions of pounds doing research into how they can make women feel crap about themselves so they can create products they can sell to women to make them feel better. For about 10 minutes until the next set of insecurities is played upon. This isn't about women being weak, it's about people wanting to make money and using psychological techniques to do so. Magazines have to imply women are a bit crap without products or the sellers of the products won't advertise and the magazines have no reason for existence. I really think this then gives the rest of society - including ourselves - permission to talk as if women are objects.

I really strongly believe all this but, by the way, it's not original - I nicked it from 'The Beauty Myth' by Naomi Wolf. It's amazing how much truer that book gets as the years go by.