Increasingly using physical force with 3 year old

[feelinglikeit]

And I hate it but also am not seeing what else I can do.

Examples like - helped herself to my jewellery collection, when I tried to take it back she just snatched it away so ended up wrestling it off her constantly going after her brother, those sorts of things. I’m really, really tired of constant conflict and misery.

I'd say you need to NOT talk to defuse the situation. Don't bother talking about her feelings. Just be as quiet and non communicative as you can.

sometimes it's necessary. My ds when a toddler was a bolter, and an accomplished escape artist. Physically restraining him was the only way to stop him running across roads and carparks, or trying to climb to dangerous heights.

A swift physical removal and a firm No!, followed by removing him from the environment completely if he wouldn't listen.

He grew out of it when he was about 5.

Jesus Christ, this is just a classic mumsnet OP must be in the wrong pile on. Read any thread about toothbrushing and it’s wall to wall ‘just force them’. Of course all parents have to overpower their 3 year olds from time to time. When tantrumming and you have to rugby carry them out of there, when refusing to brush teeth, when grabbing something they shouldn’t and refusing to let go, when not getting in the car seat. Usually it’s because of danger but often it’s to stop them damaging something like jewellery. Which you don’t have to have broken and destroyed just because you’re a mother! You’re teaching them not to destroy other people’s stuff, which will be appreciated by their friends! Ridiculous first comments.

I'm honestly not sure all the posters are parents tbh

I could be wrong. But I'm just getting the feeling that anyone whose had a screaming toddler would know that a calm voice isn't always sufficient.

Maybe they hired nannies.

Eitherway, if the OP sees this, Ile say it again. Your doing a good job and don't be hard on yourself.

I wouldn't be trying to wheedle, distract or reason. A firm 'no, you can't have that/ that's not yours/ don't take things from your brother' and whip it back quickly. Be consistent.

Counting down before you prise it back off her can be a useful tool. If you are consistent, she will likely give it back before you hit 0.

Descale? She’s not a kettle.

Omg what planet are you on? The jewellery may be valuable… share her jewellery with a 3 year old???

What logic is there in trying to teach her not to take things from her brother by forcibly removing things from her? You’re teaching her that the way to get what you want and get somebody to comply is to use physical force. Children learn how to behave to others based on how their parents behave towards them so you are probably making the issue worse as you are teaching her physically taking something by force is the way to get it, so of course she’ll keep taking things she wants from her brother - it’s the only way she’s been shown.

I sometimes (often) have to wrestle my 20 month old son into his car seat. It's awful when they're so strong willed and resistant

I don't get some of these answers, I wouldn't leap immediately to physically taking the jewellery off her but I would obviously take it if she was refusing to put down something expensive that I didn't want her playing with. I'm not getting into long negotiations about it.

Same with going after her brother, it wouldn't be my first option but I would make her stop going for him/give a snatched toy back etc if she wouldn't behave nicely after I asked. What an awful lesson to the sibling otherwise.

Surely this is just normal with small children. I'm not talking about hitting them or anything abusive, but sometimes small children do need to be forced into doing something quickly and the explanation/redirection comes afterwards. For example no one would leave a child in a dirty nappy even if the child didn't want to be changed, you'd make them do it anyway.

Three year olds are more than old enough to understand "do not touch" and similar instructions. Op's given the example of jewellery - I have not much jewellery, but I still have some for sentimental reasons that I wouldn't have wanted a 3yo playing with and that is fine. However there's also the possibility of dangerous items if she goes back to take things she's told not to.

What I would do is:

1. Put anything like jewellery out of reach so there is no temptation - same goes for medication, cleaning stuff and anything dangerous. If she climbs or tries to get any of this, it is immediate time out. It is totally fine to remove physically if she takes it. Would those that are saying "oh poor child give her her own jewellery" be saying that if she liked a bottle of medicine? No, they'd remove it physically too.
2. Taking toy from sibling, children do this - even older ones. Nothing worse than seeing that happen and a parent bleating "you know kind hands share, please give it back..." with the child clearly knowing that they won't have to give it back. Yes, give one chance to give it back - then take it. If you have to take it back, then give a consequence as well. Make it not worth holding on to.
3. Look out for positive attention you can give her. Comment when she's sharing, or handing something over. "I loved how you passed him your teddy" etc. Also if she's the older (I'm guessing) then give her little responsibilities and treats because she's older. (or if younger work that out too). So "as you're such a big girl, you get to stay up later/hold my bag/help me do this/choose whether we go to the park or the shops" etc.

If you don't get her listening at this age, she will be modelling the behaviour her brother will pick up on and she'll also be worse as she gets older. She also may have a shock when she gets to school and finds the world doesn't revolve round her and what she wants.

I have an extremely stubborn 5 year old and I have ended up being way stronger than I would have liked to be when he was a toddler(third child).
I'm sure you have tried both the super strict boundary holding and the soft and nice approach.
The only thing I have found is if we are on good terms - ie I have been present, spent some nice time with him chatting, him helping me with tasks etc he is much more compliant.
Is she very capable and independent?
If at all possible you can find a few minutes to spend time doing something she wants to do, and especially getting her to help with jobs/do jobs the confrontations might be less frequent.

You seem to be getting some harsh replies here OP. I'm sure I wrestled my children when they were toddlers many times into their car seats, high chair, pram, shoes on, give something back they snatched etc. And sometimes we didn't have the time to try 10 different methods to get them to do as they were asked. I had to hold down my son to brush his teeth after wks of songs, games, bribery etc. Nothing worked until making him do it and then he accepted it. He was never hurt and he is very stubborn. He's 7 and much easier now but still has his moments.

But since she won’t follow a simple instruction I don’t know what else to do.

You have said that distraction doesn't usually work with her.
She is too young to reason with.
So you implement consequences.

Try sitting her on a stair or in a corner. Pick her up and put her on the stair if she won't walk there. Repeatedly replace her until she gives the item back.
You have to follow through - it is boring for you as well as her, but you cannot give up.
Try a start chart or marbles in a jar to track good behaviour, do it daily rather than weekly as she is too young to wait a week. Give a reward when a certain number is reached - you have to be alert to notice the good behaviour and give praise.

As others have said, if you force her fingers open, you are just teaching her that taking what she wants by force is acceptable - she learns by copying you.

I had four children and I well remember having to force them to do things like getting clothes on, getting into cat seats, that sort of thing. Not beating them, but making them do things.

It's a phase @feelinglikeit and they do become more cooperative.

Yes this. I was the least authoritarian parent I knew. We didn't even do punishments like the naughty step thing. But by god I wouldn't be handing my jewellery over to a 3 year old or letting her keep a toy she took from her brother. That is completely unfair to the 3 year old. They learn to live by the rules because you teach them the rules.

It sounds as though a good consequence for her would be exclusion. Not long at that age - five minutes is plenty. In her room, on the naughty step, turning her chair to face the wall, or whatever. When she is allowed back, she needs to apologise and return whatever she took. If she refuses, she gets excluded again.

Put anything you don't want breaking in a place they cant reach.
You need to set firm boundaries to keep toddlers safe. No point in cooing "please dont put your hands in the oven darling/dont run out in front of that bus darling". They need to be handled firmly. Otherwise they WILL snap your jewellery/ run in front of a bus!!

Btw are we all forgetting that jewelry often have sharp points, and 3 year olds may still swallow things?

It sounds like you are only intervening late on and then it’s almost like a tug of war between you.
I’d ensure jewellery out of reach.
Nipping in bud. If they are playing and you can see DD is poised to grab toy make it clear ds is playing you can have a go after him.
If she snatches then very firm voice to give it back. Rather than wrestling off her I’d remove her from situation. Don’t give attention. If you can’t play nicely you’ll have to sit in hall etc. Give attention to ds the wronged party.
It’s about being consistent and not tolerating her behaviour. Don’t give mixed messages like letting her mess with your stuff sometimes.

Can’t wait for all these parents doing this “gentle parenting” rubbish to have teenagers. You reap what you sow and it’s more difficult to put boundaries in place when they are older. Taking something from a child is not unreasonable.

My energetic toddler is a nightmare for grabbing jewellery so mine lives in a high cupboard

You tell her she has until he count of 3 tpr return it or you will give a consequence, examples include removing a different toy, stopping a game, etc

How do you know it’s not important. Some of my Jewellry is worth a fair bit of money and some is 150 years old, passed down several generations and completely irreplaceable. I’d be wrestling it off my toddler too.
I would have it out of reach in the first place though.