To wonder about the best way to avoid being seen as a "mediocre man"?

[forceofhabitandnotneed]

After a few humiliating experiences when younger I've always been acutely aware of not being the fat self-important nerd who acts like he's God's gift to women. However, I hear the "mediocre man" term used a bit on here and I'm slightly haunted by the thought that it might apply to me, even though a fair few people have told me over the years that I don't sell myself enough.

Is there a way of being quietly confident (not just as regards dating but in other aspects of life) without making people think "state of that arrogant pig"?

Or am I overthinking it all?

Being more than the 'Mediocre man' at the dating stage is about having a solid job, being financially solvent, good hygiene (body & clothes), independence from Mummy, and some semblance of a life plan.

The 'mediocre man' bit of relationships - know about what it takes to run a house and do you fair share, know about what life admin is required to organise life and do your fair share, read 'Fair play' and really take it on board. Take the intiative without being controlling.

I don’t think the problem is being mediocre, I’m sure ultimately most of us are! The problem is behaving like you’re something special with a sense of entitlement, superiority and over confidence. That’s what’s off putting.

Agree with this. It's less about what you actually do (earnings etc.) and far more about attitude. The original phrase was 'oh for the confidence of a mediocre man'... or something like that anyway. So it's exactly what this poster has said... be who you are, but be authentic, not arrogant, and acknowledge you are not perfect or superior etc. Most of us are pretty mediocre in reality, that's fine! But don't strut around like people ought to hang on your every word.

I disagree with this as not every one is materialistic and focused on being solvent / good job /clothes - which is all very subjective anyway .

to me - being mediocre means being boring . No drive or passions /interests or ambitions.
Happy to plod along and let life pass you by.

A lot of people are like this sadly.

I specifically didn't say 'good' job, or 'good' clothes or any incling of 'wealth' (not having debt is a low bar, and marrying someone with debt is stupid!). I said hygienic and a solid job that is very different and hardly materialistic.

I don't think the 'mediocre' is about not selling oneself enough to women, it's about lack of effort. Effort to look vaguely presentable, effort to notice things around the home or about how your parter/wife feels and what she is doing. eg, if you're tired and have your feet up, noticing if she is rushing around doing things and saying 'Hey, you don't need to do everything' and ideally using your judgement and taking over some of it proactively, but if you have to, asking what would help. It means not expecting her to take responsibility for your family, eg remembering birthdays or for stuff you should sort out for yourself - ironing your shirts, making GP appointments. Basically not taking her for granted.

In terms of dating, I suppose it is not just assuming that 'kind, solvent, honest' is enough, because I'd personally take those as a bare minimum.

The fact you’re thinking about this and want to avoid being mediocre indicates to me that you’re probably not going to be a mediocre man.
Although is mediocre that bad? I feel like I’m pretty mediocre at most things!

I think you’re overthinking.
I haven’t seen that term used a lot on here but for me it’s someone who doesn’t do a lot with their life, hasn’t got much to say that’s interesting or has a high opinion of themselves without anything to justify it. Not quite as bad as someone who lives in the manosphere and spews misogyny but not ideal either.
If you treat people with respect, show interest and have something in common, that’s usually a decent start if you’re wanting to date. You don’t have to look like a male model or earn a huge salary, but you do have to put effort in, be kind and good company and ideally have a sense of humour. That’s more attractive for most women.
There’ll be someone out there for you but the dating pool is grim. Don’t take rejection as a negative, they’re just not your person.

Perhaps be more in tune with your softer sensitive side.

Nothing wrong with being mediocre. It’s the mediocre men who think they are gods gift and look down on women that are the issue!

For what it’s worth here is what I’d find attractive-
Good personal hygiene, looking after yourself via exercise and decent diet. Go to a hygienist !
Good sense of style. clothes don’t need to be super expensive.
Financially stable and live within your means. Know how to plan and cook a weeks worth of meals .
Can clean and cook and change bedding without mummy or a woman instructing you.
A social kind of hobby - wether that be fitness or volunteering or a special interest
Not just scrolling tic toc or pornhub endlessly on an evening - reading books or watching documentaries.
Interior that doesn’t look too stark and blokey - lamps, cushions, a blanket.

I think you are overthinking a bit.
All men do benefit from the patriarchy to some extent but that doesn't mean you have to weep in sackcloth and ashes. Just get on with being functional, self-sufficient for your own needs as far as possible, giving support to those you love within your capacity and receiving support from those who love you in turn without that giving and receiving being unreasonably lopsided. Mediocrity is an issue when a man receives praise and thanksgiving for reaching a pathetically low bar - "oh he's taking his kids to the park, isn't he a great dad!" when no one ever says "oh she's taking her kids to the park, isn't she a great mum" because it's such a fundamentally basic action. Same goes for cooking a meal, emptying bins/dishwasher etc. Consider the emotional labour and planning workload of everything that goes on - eg if you are paying the money for something but letting someone else do all the thinking and planning and troubleshooting and anticipation of potential problems and mitigation of different people's incompatible needs means you are contributing way less than the person who is doing all that work, and need to show proper appreciation for that labour - and probably you already do that, assuming you aren't an arse. Overthinking whether or not you are guilty of these things is almost as irritating as being actually guilty of them - it's being obsessed with how you appear to others, which people who are actually getting on with their life and doing the best they can without being too selfish generally don't have time for.

I’ve been on mumsnet 15 years and can’t say I’ve ever seen the term mediocre man. Sounds more like an incel forum thing

I think the level of "mediocre" is more about whether you can look after yourself and are self sufficient enough to not rely on a woman to live to a decent level. I know men who wear the same T shirts from 18 to 40, can cook fry ups and maybe one pasta dish, never read a book or the news unless it is on some lads' forum and can't keep a houseplant alive (although they will try). That is what I would call mediocre, which is actually a very low bar.

I think you're overthinking it OP. Personally I think it's not worth worrying about the judgement of anyone who dismisses another human being as "mediocre" based on their own subjective assessment (as you can see, this varies wildly!). Think of it like the "points out of 10" scoring system for women.

This is just what I was going to say.

OP when you see the phrase used, look at the context around it. Don't latch onto it in an Andrew Tate kinda way to kid yourself that women want 6'5" bankers.

Yep- I've only seen in the context of the phrase "God grant me the confidence of a mediocre man". It's a comment about arrogance, not imposing an objective standard of a man's 'quality'.

First response gives what is ideal in a nutshell.

I only ever use the term in the phrase "Lord, give me the confidence of a mediocre man" or similar.
It's not the mediocrity that's the problem - I'm pretty unremarkable myself - it's expecting the world to treat you like you're exceptional that bugs me.

If you're thinking about it, it probably doesn't apply to you. Good luck with the dating.

Also why are you asking a bunch of women this question? We’re not here to do your thinking for you.

I didn't get where the "mediocre man" came from either so yes now I remember - it was more about mansplaining and the fact men will talk over women in meetings or nick their ideas and pass them off as their own. Just don't be a wanker, basically.

But always read more real books if you can, too.

I don't think there's anything wrong with being a mediocre man, "normal" is what most peolle like. The saying is "the confidence of a mediocre man". What's off putting is when a perfectly ordinary man thinks he's much better than that.

Like pp have said, mediocrity is a problem when paired with arrogance.

Eg my EXH. Pays bare minimum in child maintenance that is dragged out of him by CMS, to anyone who’ll listen he calls it ‘keeping me’ when he’s not even covering 5% of the kids’ needs. A few of his female friends have talked about him like he’s an absolute super star for doing this bare minimum. He also has a very mediocre job that he calls his career, and says that mine (which actually IS a career) is shit because there’s a lot of people above me so I’m obviously replaceable (I’m not). He’s one of life’s big leaders because he has one person below him at work. He hangs on to being a style icon because he was one of the cool kids as a teen nearly 40 years ago, but still dresses in the same way! He refers to girls fancying him at school constantly. This is mediocrity gone wrong, the arrogance and the thinking you never have to work on yourself or make an effort is the killer. When we used to argue he’d literally retaliate with things like “well my dad used to do this in the 70s and my mum NEVER complained, so shut up!”

By all means be a person who gets up in the morning, gets their work done and has a simple routine, but it’s the viewing yourself as superior off the back of that, that’ll give women the ick. It’s those men who want a pat on the back for changing a nappy or taking the kids to the park for half an hour on a Sunday that are going to get called mediocre when lauded for the bare minimum.

The fact you’re asking is a good sign, arrogant people don’t do that. I reckon you’re alright! I think the first half of the phrase, oh to have the confidence, is the key point. When a man puts in his Hinge bio that he wants to take the lead as he sees it as a man’s role, but then he lists things that really don’t scream leadership qualities… that’s when the phrase comes alive.

Google turned up some funny suggestions of typical behaviours of these men:
Stepping into the unapologetic, unearned self-belief of the mediocre man—a well-documented cultural phenomenon and mindset often explored in comedy and social commentary—requires adopting a few core principles: 1, 2, 3]

The Playbook for Unwarranted Audacity

• Apply for things you aren't qualified for: Do not wait until you check 100% of the boxes on a job description or task list. If you meet roughly 40%, assume you are the visionary they have been waiting for. 1]
• Treat "No" as a suggestion or a mistake: When someone says no, do not internalize it as a reflection of your worth. Assume they simply didn't understand your brilliance yet. 1]
• Speak first, think second: Drop half-baked ideas into a meeting with the same heavy, resonant tone as a keynote speaker. Use confident corporate or industry jargon even if you are making it up as you go. 1, 2]
• Claim your physical space: Sit with your legs wide open, lean back, and act like the room belongs to you by default. 1]
• Never apologize for existing: Stop over-explaining yourself, prefacing your statements with "I'm sorry, but..." or feeling guilty for taking up time and air. 1, 2]
• Turn mismatch into a feature: Show up with mismatched socks, half-read research, or an improvised plan, and carry yourself with such heavy stoicism that people assume they are the ones missing something

Unless you're objectively exceptional at something, you will indeed be a mediocre man in the eyes of the world. But, so what? Most of us are mediocre men and women in the vast majority of contexts. An OK cook, reasonably pleasant looking, nice enough house, good enough at our jobs, can carry a tune but couldn't make a living fronting a band etc.
And that's fine.
The reasons the mediocre man has become a pejorative are firstly, our society tends to elevate men to exceptional status in a way it doesnt with women. Being an involved dad for example, to me, mediocre. To the world, a rare and special creature to be celebrated. Being good enough at his job, promote him, while women quietly plod on and get stuck. When women see this they naturally recognise the unfairness and point out the mediocrity.
Secondly, there are some men who have a vastly inflated sense of their exceptionalism, when in fact they merely deliver acceptable, because they've internalised the above.
So, in summary, nothing wrong with being mediocre, but unless you are objectively amazing at something, own it and don't try to act like you're exceptional.

I guess it might be hard in today's "invest like a billionaire" society of scams/AI/crap currency to step down from this though. Most of the adverts and advice given to men is to inflate themselves like peacocks both physically with steroids and with an emotional wall to make them "masculine", so having self reflection is unlikely because personalities like this are driven by deception. Alongside a backdrop of most men being managers who don't have equivalent qualifications to their junior staff being normalised, you can see how men fall into the trap of thinking they are special for doing the exact same or (or worse) as the next woman.