How long til privately run neighbourhood police become the norm?

[hotmumshit]

They already exist in some places and use private prosecutions to uphold their values

I personally think its morally wrong, but since when does that matter

I think that home security firms will start providing access to them as part of their services

Welcome to hell

Wow. This is so alien to me. I live rurally in Scotland and we still do not lock doors during the day and often forget at night.

We have a home alarm, but we have never set it since moving in 4 years ago.

Several times, when wet and horrible, I have rushed the children and shopping inside and left the car unlocked with the keys in. But all has been well.

I have lived in cities, so have experienced it being v different. I have had 3 cars stolen then. But now, we live in a wee bubble where graffiti is news on our village fb page and there has been not a single crime that we know of. Though I do sometimes wonder if the small community feel makes it more difficult to report domestic violence or coercive control.

If it reduces crime, what's the problem?

@Snugglemonkey this summer I spent a couple of days in a place like the one you live in

It was fantastic. But if I hadn’t actually done it, I wouldn’t believe such a place existed! I ended up there by accident - I was already away in a more obvious place and I decided to extend my holiday a bit.

if I could cope with the weather, I would have my eye on it for retirement. Or maybe I’ll just cope with the weather. I went to a local event there and met four women who had moved there from cities.

I think the problem is how it might develop

I completely see why people want to have it. I’m not criticising anyone who wants to have it. I would like to have it… in theory.

In practice, I think we don’t know who the security guards are, we don’t know if they will end up operating like gangs… if they are patrolling residential streets then they get to know the pattern of movements of residents …and then they become the prime suspect for committing a burglary surely. Or they will pass that information to a friend and not be there at the precise moment something happens…

maybe they will charge a household extra money to make sure they are never targeted… it sounds OTT but the way things are going it wouldn’t surprise me.

I am well aware of the private security. My street of my childhood home unfortunately grew vastly in popularity with the super rich and now my parents live with 24/7 security after a spate of breakins.

Thing is my parents have lived in that estate for 40 years. It’s so safe we often don’t look the doors. Cars are left unlocked. But then they aren’t a house or car worth targeting when compared next door to someone wealthier IYSWIM. So that is and isn’t relevant.

I get people are scared but it’s not rational. As far as I am aware every single robbery has been in an empty house. They are so rich they don’t even live there most of the time. So it’s security for the emptiness and these are all inside jobs imo (they know when they will be in and out).

And it is a dystopian nightmare. We had a big to-do about the revolving flood light. The car would go up and down all night with this giant beaming flashlight spinning round. Sitting having dinner or watching tv it was like something out of the handmaids tale. Finally that stopped because also rich people who actually live there obviously weren’t happy with it. So it was quite a dramatic rich v. rich showdown with threats to sue.

My dad also had a fight with one once. He was stalking him back from the pub drunk, trying to interrogate him and he told him to fuck off and kicked the car 🤣

But I have no idea what you mean about private prosecution. They can’t do anything but deter. And the people robbing this estate are not chancers. They are professionals. And if they want in - no amount of men with floodlights, dogs or cars are going to stop them. So it is largely pointless.

I meant the posh bits of Cheshire. Geography fail, my apologies.

Never. They’re not useful in the UK teallynasntheynhave zero powers and are more like over paid security guards and it’s expensive. They’re not needed in most neighbourhoods and the ones where they actually are the people aren’t well enough off to pay for them.

The richest people I know have good alarms, locks and camera, and live in staff. The ones who have posh houses tend to get someone they know to house sit when they’re away for more than a week or so. The house sitting thing is very common in London as people are always happy to come there for free accommodation!
We do the same for our hse because we always have family or friends who want to stay for free when we’re on hols as we’re in a nice seaside city

Private security firms have always been around. If this concern is real, the number of people it might affect is vanishingly small.

Wouldn't Big Terry be leaving himself wide open to being prosecuted for harassment though? His behaviour still has to be legal.

Even hanging around a residential area targeting certain residents or passers by could constitute harassment. The liabilities would be too high to make it a viable business from the private police pov.

Plus as above the concern from the residents that it could end up some dodgy protection racket they can't extract themselves from.

I suppose the big picture objection would be that rich people object to paying taxes to fund public policing when they don't need it themselves. But I find that unconvincing on two counts:

1. Many rich people object to paying taxes anyway!
2. If they have valuable property to protect they are still going to want a more effective lawyer of public policing, not less.

I do think there should be more in the news about e.g. the situation in Essex posted above though. Sunlight is important.

Wow, thanks for this. Not because it, as you say, it suggests a risk of this happening to most of us. Just because it's interesting and you paint a good picture! Do you mind saying if it was in the UK?

We have private security where we live and they are great

They have no authority to fine anyone! They have no more powers than you or me!

Yes my parents live on an affluent estate and all the residents have come together to pay for a private firm, it patrols every evening and from the afternoon in winter. You can opt out from it but then you can’t call them if there’s a problem. If we see anything suspicious we can call them. I don’t know what they would actually do about it though!

I believe they have to be vetted by the Security Industry Authority, same as nightclub bouncers, but I don't know how effective that vetting is.

I know that the individual staff lose their licence if they get a police record though.

What, the law and order in this country totally breaking down? You think its a myth?

If you say to enforcement officers you're not stopping for them they tell you they will call the police. They're often hefty blokes and menacing.
I think this is the reason they pick on older, more vulnerable people.

Private security is huge in South Africa, for homes as well as businesses. People will if necessary stretch themselves to the maximum to afford the monthly payments. The guards carry firearms. They're not literally outside your house (unless you're a whole other level of wealthy), but they patrol and respond if you phone or press the panic button.

In the small town where I live, crime has fallen slightly since our police station closed a few years ago. Around 70% of the crime here is vandalism, burglary is second and that's way behind. Police HQ is here though, so we get a lot of police officers at that end of town during the daytime, as they come here for training etc.

It still feels really safe, and I wouldn't think twice about walking home alone late at night. I'd never have dreamed of doing that when I lived in Croydon. Here, I'd be more worried about tripping on our shitty pavements than being attacked or anything, tbh.

A lot of the time, there's only two PCSOs on duty and no actual police officers. Your best chance of finding a copper on a weekday is probably to go into the Crown Court, where there are usually one or two waiting to give evidence in a trial.

Crime rates are there lowest for decades and burglaries and violent crime even longer.
I guess those balaclava dickheads are making it look worse.

Do you mean crime detection?

Surely only the courts can imprison people?

Or do you mean detain people? Providing the criteria are met, we all have the power to do that. It's called "citizen's arrest", and you have to call the police to do the legal bit.

I hope @hotmumshit doesn’t mind me saying this

But I think she’s expressed concerned about this in particular while meaning the overall situation… where things have been going the last few years and where they might ultimately be headed.

So this isn’t really about private security.

No. Violent crime hasn't been this low for 30ish years. People tend to report murder and GBH. But because of poor media reporting and sensationalism it isn't reported. It also doesn't fit the narrative being pushed by the right wing parties and press.