10.30-10.45pm bedtime for DD11.

[TheLivelyCat]

To think 10.30 10.45pm is too late for bedtime for DD 11 year 6.

DD 11 has allways been a "night owl" from young. She is diagnosis as Autistic, and CAMHS has done an ADHD referral too. However lately shes been falling asleep what I would consider late for her age. Even on a school night needing to be up for 7am. We start a bedtime routine taking about 1.5h. Shower, Pjs, bedtime snack etc (she won't read at bedtime). She's the type that her head hits the pillow and her mind wakes up. I have to stay with her to settle her due to anxiety, and not wanting her waking younger DD up(being as boring as possible) this can take 15 to 30mins.
On a none school night it isn't an issue as she can sleep in. She never naps.

I've been given a sleep diary to fill in with the look at percribing melatonin, but meds is a last resort, so for my own peace of mind, I'm wondering what an average bedtime is for 11 year olds, and what whould you consider too late that it causes issues.

My DD is Year 6 although not 11 until next June. She’s always been a night owl even as a baby! She goes up to bed about 8:30 but can sometimes be awake until 10:30 as she’s just not ready to sleep, and has been this way ever since I can remember (although obvs used to go up to bed earlier when younger). She reads, listens to Audible, occasionally draws/writes or now sometimes “organises” bits of her dresser/desk/toy boxes!

I used to worry when she was younger that she wasn’t getting enough sleep but she rarely shows any tiredness. As a baby/toddler, she was NEVER one of the up at 5am types (which her brother was!) so I think her clock is just set like this!

I have a neurodivergent family - DH and DS were both diagnosed ADHD as adults (DH was in his 50s) and DD is Autistic. Sleep was always a problem when the children were in school.

This is what I have learned:

• Both of my ADHD ers describe their main issue as having 7 TV sets tuned to different channels in their heads playing at the same time. It's not so much a matter of not being able to concentrate, but deciding which of the competing inputs should be the one to deal with.
• Stimulants help. Not just with concentration but with sleep too. They affect the ADHD brain differently to a 'normal' one. DH, never a good sleeper, slept through the night after his first day on amphetamines - this is quite usual.
• I don't think we would have survived childhood without melatonin. DD was prescribed a range of sleeping aids, including Phenergan because even as a toddler, she needed less overall sleep than her adults. A 5 minute nap would charge her for as long as 8 hours sometimes. Even now as an adult, she barely sleeps 7 hours, but at least she now enjoys just lying in bed. When they decided to try melatonin (it was a consultant's prescription when they were young and #2 went straight on it when he exhibited sleeping difficulties), it worked quickly and neither child needed a break from it. It always worked, which suggests that they had difficulty in manufacturing enough of their own melatonin (which for those who don't know is the sleep hormone that we all make ourselves).

I do understand the reluctance that parents and carers have when the doctors suggest medicating their ND children. It's a big step. My advice would be to give it a trial (whatever is suggested). You'll soon see if it works and if your child shows positive behavioural changes, you know that you've done the right thing.

Btw, neither of mine, nor DH have become drug addicts - something many parents have told me they worry about. Why should they? Certainly my ADHD ers get their class A drugs from the pharmacy and the use is carefully monitored. They function well.

Is it adversely affecting her? My daughter doesn't have any additional needs but has been going to bed at a similar time from a similar age. If she were to go up at 7pm she'd just lay there until 11pm anyway! She gets up fine for school and it doesn't affect her learning or general wellbeing, so I just roll with it 🤷

Is it adversely affecting her? My daughter doesn't have any additional needs but has been going to bed at a similar time from a similar age. If she were to go up at 7pm she'd just lay there until 11pm anyway! She gets up fine for school and it doesn't affect her learning or general wellbeing, so I just roll with it 🤷

Is it adversely affecting her? My daughter doesn't have any additional needs but has been going to bed at a similar time from a similar age. If she were to go up at 7pm she'd just lay there until 11pm anyway! She gets up fine for school and it doesn't affect her learning or general wellbeing, so I just roll with it 🤷

Comparing an ND kid to an NT kids bedtime is like comparing apples with pears. Is she struggling with tiredness in the day is the big question. Also, is there anything could be doing to wind down alone after 9pm eg Lego or colouring. It's lovely that she still wants you but it's so late and you're probably not getting downtime that you need.

My kids do not appear to need sleep and they have clearly inherited this from their parents as we tend to get 7 hours in the week and 8 at the weekend. My DD 8 is awake till 10 or later most nights and DS13 is generally 11 on a school night and was similar to DD when younget. DS gets up himself at 6.45 every day. DS has a referral in and DD has many ADHD traits. Thing is, if you compared a room full of adults and their sleep habits and requirements, it would vary wildly with some needing 10 hours and others on far less. Not sure why we think kids would be wildly different.

My oldest son (autistic and ADHD) was always the same, still is and he's 15. Needs a lot of reassurance at night time and going over next days routine on repeat, and then just airing any thoughts he has on repeat. Constantly needing to resettle. He won't even take pain meds when he's in pain (broke 2 bones in his arm and had a meltdown when they tried to give paracetamol) so sleep meds are out of the question.

My 4yo is autistic and on 6mg melatonin per night, but he has always slept 11pm-3am without melatonin and no nap, and he was awake climbing furniture and jumping off and running into walls and doors at full speed (disrupting the neighbours too) so it was not an option to not medicate him tbh. We did the whole sleep hygiene course and sleep clinic referrals, in the end his paediatrician prescribed melatonin when he was 3.

At least the older one sleeps til 6am once he goes to sleep, which is usually around midnight, but the youngest will go to sleep at a ridiculous time and wake at a ridiculous time without the meds.