Would I regret asking social services for support?

[bamboobam]

I have a 9 year old daughter who has adhd and is on the pathway to an autism assessment.
She has medication for her adhd which seems to help at school but when she gets home and it’s worn off she can have up to an hour melt down.
This affects my other child and I would like to seek help but I have heard some pretty scary stories about social services.
Would I regret getting them involved?

I’m afraid you are wrong.

Just because others have been wrongly told they don’t meet the criteria doesn’t mean other people shouldn’t fight for support. Support is not just for severely disabled DC nor for those with significant and complex disability. Although I’m sure that is what your LA would like you to believe.

I'm not sure who you mean ? Do you mean children at risk of harm or abuse ? As obviously SW have a remit to work to help these children . I don't have any experience in that area thankfully ! It's a very different area to children with disabilities. The OP was asking if she could get help from SW in a situation where a different approach or agency would be more appropriate - given how high the bar is to get help even in cases of severe disability.

What’s your experience of this then? Do you actually think children get removed from homes for no reason? Social work do everything in their power to keep children at home as studies have proven that care experienced children do not do well late, the term in Scotland is good enough parenting. I had to leave my role in children’s services as it was heartbreaking seeing every day the situations children were living in. Children live with drug addicts, abusers, parents with learning disabilities and mh issues, children are only removed when their is immediate risk of harm or the parent has shown time and time again that they cannot keep the child safe. Social work make a recommendation it’s the courts that decide

If your child is being removed there must be substantial concerns unless you’re taking about extremely rare cases when mistakes have happened which is never ok

No, I mean support for disabled DC isn’t limited to severely disabled DC nor for those with significant and complex disability. LAs would like it be limited in such a way but, legally, it isn’t. Although, as I said, many have to fight for it.

As I also said, it doesn’t have to be either or. OP can seek support via children’s services as well as via other routes.

One of the social workers who was a great help to me and my son left due to the emotional burnout of seeing so many families with disabled children that they could not help. Realistically only the most determined parents with the most well documented and most severely disabled children stand a chance of even being considered for assistance.

im not sure why you think we’re talking about removal here.

But people subjected to harm, distress, etc because of children’s? They’re not extremely rare.

In the words of the chair of the IRO panel at my stage 3 complaint: ‘We have good reason the believe that Fiftyandme’s experience is only the tip of the iceberg.’

There’s a reason the HOL is asking for submissions about harm caused by children’s social care.

so tired of naive people believing that SW get it right 99.9% of the time - there are no longitudinal studies to show this, people being able to access justice when they’ve been wronged by SS is virtually impossible, even accessing the complaints system is incredibly difficult, and many family’s are so destroyed by their juggernaut they’re left incapable of fighting any more and support to fight is non existent.

I'm an ASN teacher and work with many children with autism. On the contrary to what many responses are saying, I have worked with a number of children whose parents have sought and received support from social services, usually respite agencies or family support workers. I have never known any parent to lose care of their own children for asking for support, I have seen their judgements questioned though when they haven't sought support that was obviously needed. My parents are also respite foster carers and care for children in similar circumstances to give their parents and/or siblings some needed respite.

Realistically only the most determined parents with the most well documented and most severely disabled children stand a chance of even being considered for assistance.

This isn’t the case. Many have to fight for it but it isn’t only the most severely disabled DC entitled to support. I have 3 disabled teens. Two of whom are profoundly disabled. One is definitely not what anyone would call severely disabled. He still has funding via social care for PA hours. Although only because we enforced his rights. We choose to take have DPs but we don’t have to. I have supported others across multiple LAs who wouldn’t be classed as the most severely disabled children to secure support too. It shouldn’t be a fight but sadly isn’t going to change any time soon.

Absolutely ! Sometimes well meaning family members will discourage parents of disabled children from seeking help from SW based on wrong perceptions of what they will do. Care placements for disabled children are extremely hard to find even when they are needed and wanted by everyone.

You responded to me saying it isn’t true that children get removed easily and said I’m wrong

And yet if you look at the OP she’s just asking if she’d regret it - not if her children would be removed.

SS making a parents life hell takes more forms than just removal.

My children have complex needs, EHCPs, special school places / EOTAS, multiple diagnoses at a young age, and I work supporting other SEND families mainly in my area but also nationally. One has a disability social worker and we get payments for a respite carer. One with multiple diagnoses in a special school doesn’t even get any support from SS.

I don’t think SS would come in and take your children away, however I find it unlikely that you would get any meaningful support. The disability team wouldn’t touch this case in a lot of areas (assuming your child is mainstream, no EHCP, and not displaying high levels of need outside of the home, they will likely be deemed not complex/high needs enough) so you’d probably end up with a general social worker if and it’s a big if, you got anything at all. They probably wouldn’t understand all that well and it would be meetings to attend without any of it resulting in any practical help. They could potentially be judgemental and concerned if they believe you’re not coping well in a situation where they may not see all that much need. I know people are saying that the disability SW aren’t just for severe disabilities but in reality, resources are very limited with parents of children with very severe needs often fighting for scraps. The situation you describe - while I’m sure is horrible and I’m not trying to minimise that - is very sadly now very common and a big part of why the country has seen a steep rise in home education, so they just will not realistically typically offer help in this kind of situation because the resources aren’t there for all who need help.

It certainly won’t meet the criteria for things like respite care, which is the main reason most families I come into contact with seek out SS involvement, alongside supporting complex case coordination where there are very complex health (physical or mental) and supporting with things like grants for home extensions and so on, none of which which appear to be applicable here.

You may be signposted to parenting courses, which are often useless, but there are helpful ones out there which you can seek out yourself without the hassle of SS. You may be signposted to support groups and so on. All of this signposting could be provided via local SEND groups either on social media or in person. There are charities and other organisations that offer courses on different aspects of SEND in order to help parents understand and better support their children - I’ve did various online courses myself in the early days (everything from sensory processing to SEND tribunal processes).

Really though it sounds like what you need simply isn’t really SS remit. It sounds like ADHD meds may need looking at - an additional dose can be given to help with that after school time, so do go back to the relevant prescriber - and for needs to be better met in school. And if you’re not confident in whether you’re using the right approaches there’s a whole host of different ways you could get support with that, none of which require SS. I’m not sure what SS could even do for you as it’s probably school that is the trigger. If needs are not being met in school you may need to look into an EHCP. If you really want something akin to social care then you’d probably be looking at Early Help.

That's very different to my local area unfortunately but good that some areas can still provide wider support. I had to fight for years to get my ds' services. The social workers who helped me advised me on how to build a dossier of evidence from many professionals that documented the impact his disability has on him and his family - and to gather in an army of politicians to back our case. I don't think we would have got over the finish line without following this advice. You are right that families can refuse SDS and ask for SW to pay for third party services directly ( though they don't advertise this). We were lucky to get in under the wire before SDS took full effect and we got services paid for directly without too much of a fuss.

It is all such a fight, isn’t it? The law is the same in all LAs in the country, despite what some LAs think and like to make up.

Why did you respond to me then? I was making points about the posters who
suggested children have been removed after parents asking for help, I said that doesn’t happen and you said I was wrong, why even bother responding to me then? There’s no doubt that people have had terrible experiences but that wasn’t what I was talking about

Also all council areas will be different, Scotland has different laws so everyone’s experience will be different. I do know family’s who have support from services if the parent has issues like disability or mh issues so it’s not always just about the child. If op isn’t coping she may be able to get support. I asked for support and I certainly wasn’t investigated in any way. Infact it was the opposite, I was supported and reassured I was doing everything right, my child was given an early nursery place, OT referral and play therapy and speech therapy

All council areas are not different. All councils within the same country are governed by the same legislation. So all LAs in England have same laws to follow. Scotland has different rules to England, but all areas in Scotland have the same rules to follow and it isn’t a case of each area in Scotland making up their own rules. Even though most would like their, often unlawful, local policies to overrule that.

Well they would say the law imposes a duty on SW to act in certain defined circumstances and when certain criteria are met after statutory assessments have been done (the law does not specify a timescale for this) . The law hasn't changed since I succeeded in getting services for my ds but what can SW do when they know there are so few services ? Even if they succeed in getting a personal budget set up, finding somewhere to spend it is very challenging as so many services have closed down. SW's answer is to employ a PA but this is not easy if the disabled child is a teenager who is hard to manage in public and may lash out and hit people - understandably not many people want this kind of job

Lack of services isn’t a lawful excuse for failure to provide support. Parents don’t have to accept LAs taking an unreasonable amount of time either. LAs know this, which is why the concede when parent go down the legal enforcement route. They just like to kick the can down the road because they know not all will enforce provision and even if they do it isn’t instant.

They can do more than shrug their shoulders any say nothing we can do when parents are struggling to find PAs too. For example, a higher ratio can help recruit staff. DS3 has 2:1 support because of this. (DS1 does too but he receives continuing care funding for his carer hours rather than via social care.) As can funding at a higher rate, potentially a much higher rate, can also help to attract staff. DS1&3’s PAs/carers receive more than my LA like to fob people off with.

After working in 3 different local authorities I can assure you they are different, there’s different budgets, access to resources and ways on approaching legislative matters. Adult protection was dealt with in a totally different way in one council to another. It is well known that many family’s open to SW move to big city’s as there criteria for risk is so much higher and therefore become under the radar. Scotland has a hearings system/childrens panel for children

England and Scotland share many social work values, but their statutory frameworks and legal processes differ substantially, particularly in adult safeguarding, children's hearings, mental health, mental capacity and children's rights.

The underlying law is the same though in each country.

I acknowledged different countries have different rules.

Of course but having differing budgets and resources means people will have different experiences with their councils which is the point I was making