Year 7 (who is very good at maths) has been put in the bottom sets.

[ReevesJeeves]

My DD has always been very good at Maths. In Year 6, she achieved Greater Depth in her Maths SATS (achieving 115/120). Since joining Year 7, she has been in a mixed ability Maths Set. In the work that has been sent home from Secondary and that is set on Sparx, she is getting 80% - 90% correct, independently.

We have just had a letter home today, advising that Maths will be set after half term, and my DD will be in Set 5 of 6! The letter also explains that she has been assessed as finding Maths challenging and not to worry about sets, every child will be assisted individually. AIBU to think the school doesn’t know my DD at all, and to send an email querying how they came to this decision? I fail to see how she can now be finding maths challenging and in Set 5 of 6, having achieved 115/120 in her SATS only months ago. Maths has always been a subject she has excelled in, right down to her KS1 Times Tables test where she scored 100%. BTW this is not a selective school or grammar, it’s mainstream state, so it’s not as though the department will be awash with Maths geniuses (in the least offensive way). I also don’t want to appear as a trouble maker or someone the school will be fed up with, but I think this needs to be questioned to find out what has gone wrong so to speak.

My husband thinks I shouldn’t say anything as the school will just think I’m a neurotic mum, I disagree and I think it needs to be dealt with and questions asked pronto - something has clearly gone drastically wrong either with the teachers assessment of DD or in the way DD is presenting herself in class?!

If they're not using CATs test scores, then definitely question it.

The school have a strange way of going about things. Do CATs. Stream but don't use these scores. Then stream again, using these scores.

Weird. Best of luck getting it sorted.

Bug the school, they won't think badly of you. And there is nothing you can do that would make teachers treat your child differently because you bugged them.
I worked in a school where we had a column on the admin system to indicate which parents were banned from the school site for threatening staff with physical violence, and we didn't treat the kids differently.
Also schools are always making mistakes with sets. I once tried to get a lovely lad out of phonics because he could already read at a very high level. Head of English wouldn't shift him. I went to watch the lad in a history lesson writing a very fluent essay about why Harold lost the Battle of Hastings. His reading age was better than about half of the then year 11s. In the end he stayed in the phonics group because it was too hard to get him out! God knows what he made of it.

I think sometimes they just obfuscate as to what has been used to be honest, so they can't be held to account on "why is child x with x score on this class but child y with x score isn't?"

I guess they have their method of doing it, but I don't think they always like to have to share it. I suppose all sorts of things like SEN and pushy parents (not you op!) form a part of the picture.

Of course you should email. The work they are doing will be a completely different level and they will be playing catch up for the rest of their time at school. Even if they are not moved you will know that you tried your best. My best friend is a headteacher and she deals with issues like this all the time. As she says those you shout the loudest get heard. They will not take it personally.

I haven't seen this mentioned, but sometimes kids with an extremely high aptitude for maths can struggle in secondary school because maths is more focused on learning formulas than solving problems. When I was in secondary school I struggled an awful lot with not just writing the answer down, because when I'd read a problem, I'd just know the answer immediately. I wasn't doing any conscious calculations, I just knew the answer as it was obvious.

My teacher seemed to genuinely think I was doing something like the simultaneous equation in my head and was always trying to get me to write down my work, but the problem was, I wasn't doing any work, I just knew that X=2, the same way that I knew how to move my hand to scratch my nose. Asking me to explain each step of the equation was like asking me to explain each muscle movement and speed and pressure calculation in the nose scratch.

I eventually ended up with moderate maths scores, because by the later years of school, there was only so much maths I just knew the answer to, and I'd never learned to work through the procedure of an equation. The same thing is happening with my DS now, except his teacher won't score him for correct answers without showing his work, and she genuinely can not understand that he's not doing the work, the answer is just obvious upon reading the problem. Luckily I've since taught myself the procedures and can help him in ways that work better for our brains, but it's genuinely weirdly difficult to dismantle a problem you just know the answer to.

I think you should send a polite email

This happened to my friends child. The staff member then told the child off as they thought they were not working when actually they had finished the worksheet 15 minutes before anyone else.

After about a month the teacher realised and gave the child extra work. Which they could do. They were moved sets the following term and are at the top of the top set - still finding the work too easy. The child got 119 in SATs.

Personally I would have made an appointment with the school to find out what is happening. But it’s clear errors are made (or they don’t cross reference CATs and SATs).

Yes I’d send a polite email.

Just say you’d like to query her being in set 5 and deemed to be needing extra support as it’s surprising due to always having excelled in maths, getting high Sats score and scoring well in her sparx work so far. As this is unexpected, you just want to check there hasn’t been an error.

Definitely talk to the school. (Unless you are misding out that this is a top Grammar where they atmre all top 5%!).

Either theres been a mistake, or your child has a problem that needs addressing. Both scenarios require checking.

There's nothing wrong with emailing to say that you'd like to discuss her progress, and get more information about what she's finding challenging so you can support her at home - it certainly won't affect how they treat her in class. She may have been coping well in primary school, but secondary is a big jump up and some children naturally reach a point where they struggle more, in general or with particular topics they cover - Sparx grades only relate to the level of work they are being set, and a child's assessment of how they're doing in class isn't helpful without context - she could be finding the work easy and getting good scores as the work is at a 'set 5' level. Sets are in constant flux, and if she's really 'fine' then they'll move her up, when appropriate, but there's no point in having a child struggling in the wrong set, as it can often affect their confidence in a subject and ultimately, their outcomes.

They tend to change round the sets every half term or so anyway, in my experience.
My son pretty much flunked his SATs (too much pressure, he has autism and had severe anxiety, he had a vile teacher who literally tormented him and laughed at him) got 98/99 for everything.
When he got to secondary he was streamed in the bottom set. After the first 1/2 term, he was “re streamed” into 3rd set for everything, except science and IT, we had parents evening where we were asked if we were comfortable with him being top set science and sitting in on year 9 IT lessons (he’s always been a computer whiz)
Of course we said yes, then this year similar thing happened except he was put straight into 2nd set for everything and now sits in on year 10 IT.
I think secondary schools are more dynamic and seem to have a better grasp than primary schools on where children should sit.
I would query it with an email, and just ask if your waiting until first 1/2 term is over before she’s re streamed?

Yeah definitely challenge. Many many moons ago I was put in the lowest set for English with all the kids who just wanted to mess around. They finally realised this was an error and I moved up to set 2. I missed out on a large chunk of learning though because they didnt get it right first time.

Excellent wording.

My daughter got put in a low maths set when she started secondary school due to an admin error. I queried it and and she got moved up.

She's now doing maths at uni.

It's fine to query it, not neurotic at all. If they did CAT tests she may have just had a bad day and not scored as highly as she could have and they are using that data to create sets. They should have her sats score though so they should have flagged a discrepancy between sats and any CAT or school testing as her Sats score is excellent, she should definitely be in topset with that SATs score. Definitely flag, schools are busy places and you are helping if there has been a misunderstanding or error.

Definitely contact the school. This happened to my DD in Year 7 with English sets. Confusion between her and another girl with an almost identical full name. DD was moved back up to Set 1 as soon as I emailed in.

The only exception would be if your DD attends a super-selective grammar school where every child would have come out as Greater Depth at the end of Year 6. Then it is possible that she is in set 5.

Your big issue here though is your DH. He will need to grasp that in this day and age, parents do need to advocate for their dc. Especially when they are still only 11/12 and have just started secondary school. His passive approach will do your dd no favours.

I do not support emailing the school over every little thing but issues that directly impact on the education of your child are worthy of raising. As a parent, that’s your job.

Definitely query it.

It's a fact that something has gone wrong - either they’ve made an error in assigning/notifying you of the set, or the work of a previously high-attaining child has suddenly plummeted. Either way, the school needs to investigate urgently.

Your husband is wrong. Your DD needs you to stand up for her (calmly and politely). Teachers/admin staff are only human and can make mistakes.

I’m a maths tutor and a couple of my kids have been put in really low sets before and it’s been a mistake. No harm in asking.

What?! They aren’t marked by the teachers they are sent off to be marked. They are done in exam conditions

You need to get in touch to find out what is the issue. Possibilities are

1. admin error, easily rectified
2. exceptionally strong year
3. a difference in the style of maths being assessed, a greater emphasis on the application and understanding of concepts rather that things like times tables which can be rote learned
4. your dd possibly loosing marks by not showing workings.

Once you know what you are looking at you will have a better idea how to act.

Perfect reply

Definitely worth checking because once you're in those bottom sets it's difficult to make your way out again, and disruption levels (generalising) are higher. My son was moved to the equivalent set after doing badly on one test, on one subject he'd missed a lesson on. He worked his way back up to a higher GCSE test set eventually but took a few years.

I would definitely raise it. Either she is in the correct set and something has gone seriously wrong with her ability/achievement in maths which would be important to figure out. Or she is in the wrong set and it needs to be fixed.
Either way she needs yours and the school's support to meet her potential.

Someone in my child’s class (private. Very selective school)was put in the bottom set in maths. I was very surprised as you can always tell the clever kids. Mum went to the school who refused to change their mind.

Mum changed school. Partly because of this and partly because she said kid was being bullied. Kid was not being bullied btw. Kid just a very big pita and no one would play with them.
Went to a different even more selective school and was put in the top set straight away and stayed there.
Still a big pita with no friends. Just in a different set.

Of course you should email a query about this.
Parents should always advocate for their children in a calm respectful manner.
If not them, then who will?