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I'm often confused by discussions around poverty, addiction, and crime because they seem to focus heavily on society and not much on individual responsibility

276 replies

YourWaryPlumBalonz · 18/10/2026 20:07

For context, I'm autistic, grew up in a low-income household, and my dad was largely absent and neglectful. He rarely showed up, wasn't particularly involved, and wasn't much of a support. Despite that, I never got involved in crime or drugs.
Instead, I used the support that was available. I got help from charities, received government support related to my disability and employment, and eventually found a professional job. It wasn't easy, but there were people and organisations willing to help.
So what I'm struggling to understand is this: if support exists, why are so many problems framed primarily as society's fault rather than the responsibility of the individual?
I'm not saying circumstances don't matter. Clearly they do. But there seem to be plenty of people who experience poverty, disability, family breakdown, neglect, bullying, etc., and don't end up addicted, committing crimes, or repeatedly making self-destructive choices.

OP posts:
PolishKurwa · 19/10/2026 17:28

Surely it's your fault if you're addicted to drugs and alcohol? Like no one forced you to take them? You took them voluntarily you injected it.

Especially drugs. I'd have no idea where to get them at all. I don't even drink as well.

RedTagAlan · 19/10/2026 17:35

outdoorkitchen · 19/10/2026 16:48

Some people just can not accept help for whatever reason ( usually trauma), my ex was like that, i even drove him to his supports, he would go in the door and when I drove away he headed to the pub ( I found this out later), my thinking of his reasons was he was not willing to put in any work to get better but he was ashamed of that so drank more and became more abusive, he died young leaving our young child fatherless and both our lives easier.

And the thing is, when one is younger, one does not see how one was formed. What hammer blows were struck against the mould as the forming was underway. It's later in life when one realizes. That's when you see your faults and start to see where they came from.

The term " Young dumb and full of cum" I suppose. Then later, you think " Shit, I really fucked up". And you start to understand why you fucked up.

Threads like this make me think back. And goodness me, I fucked up. And really, I think based on what I knew then, and who I was, it's amazing that I did not fuck up more. I literarily knew nothing. But I thought I knew it all.

First marriage for example. I had never seen a happy marriage. I thought marriage was supposed to be miserable. Because that is who I was then. That is the way I had been moulded. That is all I had experienced.

And I think, by the time you realize the flaws in the mould that formed you, it's too late. The damage is done. And the shame of the damage you have done to others kicks in.

And it kicks in hard.

SpiritAdder · 19/10/2026 17:40

So what I'm struggling to understand is this: if support exists, why are so many problems framed primarily as society's fault rather than the responsibility of the individual?

These problems of poverty and its knockon effects of addiction and crime are researched and written about at the population level, not the individual level.
At the population level, the right support does not exist everywhere for everyone that needs it. In addition, even if support is available, it may come at the wrong time for the person when they are unable to use it.

As an individual, you were lucky enough to have support. You also had the capacity to work with the support you were offered.

Generally, at the population level. every individual that gets the right support at the right time can and does put in the work lift themselves out of poverty (even though bad luck can put them right back down) because no one likes to live in poverty. You and your peers prove that individual responsibility is as high as (imho higher than) the individual responsibility of the upper classes where quite literally people can never work a day or get any qualifications and still live a life of luxurious leisure.

You are one of the lucky few and you then worked hard to capitalise on your luck. Most people in poverty do not get the right support at the right time. This failure on the part of society perpetuates poverty, which in turn perpetuates the higher rates of addiction and crime amongst the poor.

That is why it is framed as a societal problem, because it is one.

PeasOff · 19/10/2026 17:48

PolishKurwa · 19/10/2026 17:28

Surely it's your fault if you're addicted to drugs and alcohol? Like no one forced you to take them? You took them voluntarily you injected it.

Especially drugs. I'd have no idea where to get them at all. I don't even drink as well.

Nobody’s saying people have no responsibility for their choices, but addiction is a lot more complex than simply choosing to take drugs or drink alcohol. Something can start as a voluntary choice and develop into a dependency that affects your brain, judgement and ability to stop. Trauma, mental health issues, circumstances and genetics can all play a part, too.

Simply saying “you chose to take it” is a bit like saying someone with depression should just choose to be happy. You can acknowledge personal responsibility without pretending addiction is that simple.

SpiritAdder · 19/10/2026 17:50

PolishKurwa · 19/10/2026 17:28

Surely it's your fault if you're addicted to drugs and alcohol? Like no one forced you to take them? You took them voluntarily you injected it.

Especially drugs. I'd have no idea where to get them at all. I don't even drink as well.

Often it is not your fault if you become addicted to a substance.
First, if your life is so miserable - you are hungry, you are traumatised, you feel hopeless - you will need an escape from reality so you do not go mad. So you drink or you smoke or you shoot up just to get that break from reality. Hit the pause button on the psychological torture of your life. Many drugs also make a person feel good, feel warm, stops the hunger pangs, makes you see beauty in ugliness, and feel hopeful and alive.

You cannot know that these escapades would trigger the physiological addiction that affects some at the first dose, some on the hundredth but most never hit addiction. You play the odds. You think just in this one thing, I will not be so unlucky as to get addicted! I am due a piece of good luck..

Most addictions start with self medication.

For people not in poverty, its usually work stress - modelling, finance, military etc, or traumatic events.

Millytante · 19/10/2026 17:55

YourWaryPlumBalonz · 19/10/2026 10:15

yes there is classim too, im from a working class background

Cobblers!
Next you'll be asking if you are BU to believe that clouds are God’s daisy chain. Just stop it.

If you really, really want to annoy people, why not stick to itching powder or ‘Knock! Knock!’ jokes?

SpiritAdder · 19/10/2026 17:56

Ah i am seeing your low income roots were as the child of two PhD students who are now academics. It is likely your support came from your parents or connections via your parents. That explains your upward trajectory and why you think the support you got exists for everyone on a low income. You were in what is called genteel poverty which is both temporary and culturally middle class.

It also explains why you are ignorant of working class poverty and chronic deprivation.

PolishKurwa · 19/10/2026 18:11

SpiritAdder · 19/10/2026 17:50

Often it is not your fault if you become addicted to a substance.
First, if your life is so miserable - you are hungry, you are traumatised, you feel hopeless - you will need an escape from reality so you do not go mad. So you drink or you smoke or you shoot up just to get that break from reality. Hit the pause button on the psychological torture of your life. Many drugs also make a person feel good, feel warm, stops the hunger pangs, makes you see beauty in ugliness, and feel hopeful and alive.

You cannot know that these escapades would trigger the physiological addiction that affects some at the first dose, some on the hundredth but most never hit addiction. You play the odds. You think just in this one thing, I will not be so unlucky as to get addicted! I am due a piece of good luck..

Most addictions start with self medication.

For people not in poverty, its usually work stress - modelling, finance, military etc, or traumatic events.

If you're hungry, buy food instead of alcohol and drugs

SpiritAdder · 19/10/2026 19:27

PolishKurwa · 19/10/2026 18:11

If you're hungry, buy food instead of alcohol and drugs

🥹 the ones addicted to food do just that. You must have noticed BED and obesity are much higher in deprived areas?

PolishKurwa · 19/10/2026 19:34

SpiritAdder · 19/10/2026 19:27

🥹 the ones addicted to food do just that. You must have noticed BED and obesity are much higher in deprived areas?

They should moderate their portions and exercise. Running is free

MyDucksAreHavingAParty · 19/10/2026 19:39

PolishKurwa · 19/10/2026 19:34

They should moderate their portions and exercise. Running is free

You clearly don't understand addiction at all!

ChihuahuaChica · 19/10/2026 19:39

YourWaryPlumBalonz · 18/10/2026 20:45

And i dont understand why people who got support still failed

Then, you really are fucking stupid.
Some people have more complex needs than others.

PeasOff · 19/10/2026 19:44

PolishKurwa · 19/10/2026 19:34

They should moderate their portions and exercise. Running is free

Again addiction isn't as simple as you are making out and is much more complex than 'don't do it', 'eat less and run more'.

PolishKurwa · 19/10/2026 19:44

MyDucksAreHavingAParty · 19/10/2026 19:39

You clearly don't understand addiction at all!

Do you not think someone can use their money for food over drugs and alcohol? If you're so so so destitute you use your money for essentials over addictive poisons

PolishKurwa · 19/10/2026 19:45

PeasOff · 19/10/2026 19:44

Again addiction isn't as simple as you are making out and is much more complex than 'don't do it', 'eat less and run more'.

So people can't control their actions?

MyDucksAreHavingAParty · 19/10/2026 19:56

PolishKurwa · 19/10/2026 19:44

Do you not think someone can use their money for food over drugs and alcohol? If you're so so so destitute you use your money for essentials over addictive poisons

If they are addicted to drugs/alcohol then probably not. And food addiction isn't as easy to treat as "eat less and go running"

Maybe you need to go away and read a bit more about addiction.

Catza · 19/10/2026 19:57

There is inconsistency in your argument. You make it sound as though it was your personal responsibility to get yourself to a good position and dismiss the notion of society. However, you fail to recognise that charities and government support related to your disability is all part of society that you feel has no bearing on your outcome.
Just today I was looking up some MH support for a person who lives in a big city. There were countless charities offering to pick up the slack resulting from the NHS waiting lists. If you try to access the same support in a small provincial town in Midlands, you'll be out of luck.
Children in London travel for free on busses. Children in Bristol do not.
These are just two very quick examples of the kind of an impact "society" can have on someone's life outcomes.
Even you getting support depended largely on either you or your parents being literate, speaking good level of English and knowing where to go to access this support. A Romani orphan lad I worked with a few years ago could only read words with fewer than three syllables and didn't experience the world beyond children's home he grew up in before being turfed out into a bedsit. He didn't have a parent or a teacher, or even a friend to help him navigate the world.
Personal responsibility is all well and good when you have some structure, support, health, and basic resources. The fact that you don't recognise that you did, in fact, have a little more than some people is rather alarming for someone who claims to have "made it".

PeasOff · 19/10/2026 19:57

PolishKurwa · 19/10/2026 19:45

So people can't control their actions?

Did you not see my initial reply to you? Perhaps read and respond to the points raised in that.

People can control their actions, but addiction can affect their ability to do so. If stopping was as simple as choosing to stop, addiction wouldn’t exist. Understanding addiction isn’t about excusing behaviour, it’s about recognising that it’s more complicated than what you're making it out to be.

Bridgertonisbest · 19/10/2026 20:41

I grew up in poverty, alcoholic, neglectful and abusive parents, witnessed lots of domestic violence spent time in care blah blah blah.

I'v been married to my husband for over 20 years, we both have professional jobs, no addictions, blah blah.

Almost everyone I grew up with, particularly those of us that were in foster are, has some sort of addiction issues, mental health issues or is still living in poverty.

That's the norm, people replicate what they know. People are scared of what they don't know and have subconscious mechanisms to ensure they stay in the same situations they grew up in, even if they consciously want to escape them.

You managed to access support but many people don't and for some that do it isn't enough.

PolishKurwa · 19/10/2026 20:47

MyDucksAreHavingAParty · 19/10/2026 19:56

If they are addicted to drugs/alcohol then probably not. And food addiction isn't as easy to treat as "eat less and go running"

Maybe you need to go away and read a bit more about addiction.

Don't take drugs and alcohol then. Have healthy eating habits.

MyDucksAreHavingAParty · 19/10/2026 20:48

PolishKurwa · 19/10/2026 20:47

Don't take drugs and alcohol then. Have healthy eating habits.

As I thought. Utterly clueless. Lucky you. You've obviously had a charmed life so far.

PolishKurwa · 19/10/2026 20:56

PeasOff · 19/10/2026 19:57

Did you not see my initial reply to you? Perhaps read and respond to the points raised in that.

People can control their actions, but addiction can affect their ability to do so. If stopping was as simple as choosing to stop, addiction wouldn’t exist. Understanding addiction isn’t about excusing behaviour, it’s about recognising that it’s more complicated than what you're making it out to be.

Again addiction only starts if you take the drug.

Just don't take it. I wouldn't even know where to find them. People are responsible for their own choices in life.

PolishKurwa · 19/10/2026 21:02

MyDucksAreHavingAParty · 19/10/2026 20:48

As I thought. Utterly clueless. Lucky you. You've obviously had a charmed life so far.

I haven't. I've been through lots of crap. Never found the need to take illegal substances to get high and get addicted to it

PolishKurwa · 19/10/2026 21:06

At some point you are an adult with your own ability and own agency and ability to control your own actions.

MyDucksAreHavingAParty · 19/10/2026 21:11

PolishKurwa · 19/10/2026 21:02

I haven't. I've been through lots of crap. Never found the need to take illegal substances to get high and get addicted to it

Neither have I. But im not so dense that I can't understand why people do. FFS.