Why are so many YP going to uni, when uni isn't right for so many YP? AIBU to think fewer YP should go to uni as it's only giving them a huge debt?

[MerryAquaKoala]

It seems such a waste of time for so many, racking up huge debt and gaining no benefit from their degree whatsoever. It seems to me that uni's accept such low grades from A Level these days, it's literally a scheme to keep money going to the university and definitely not for the benefit of the YP.

It probably even comes further back to A Levels - A Levels aren't right for so many YP yet currently it seems they're funnelled into doing them anyway.

Something doesn't feel right with it all and in the end it's a YP left with huge debt for the rest of their life (usually). Seems so wrong.

This is a big part of the issue.

And I agree it isn’t a waste of time if the student enjoys it. 🤷‍♀️

Obviously there is value in education!

That only the rich can afford it. I suppose it is accurate to say that only the rich can afford it without going into debt. Which actually supports your point. I take my post back - ok only the rich can afford an education at university without going into debt.

But then is it true to say that if you have to go into debt to get a degree you can't afford it? The government is never going to stop tuition fees now.

I am well aware of that. What is your answer?

😆

Uni was the best thing I ever did. My degree is virtually useless but at uni i met the man I would eventually marry, i got out from under my mother's control, I learned a lot of independence i hadn't had before and I had a shit load of fun. I find a lot of young people these days don't know what they want to do long term amd in the old days young people who were unsure of their future preferred to work then decide later to go to uni, but so many people I met at uni including myself did not know what they wanted to do with their lives. I went to uni cos it was expected of me.

I am flabbergasted that so many have an issue with 'YP' and now 'uni'.. It doesn't make me a traitor because I have a habit of using abbreviations / acronyms 😂

Did you come out with much debt?

Totally agree. "Education, education, education" did a huge amount of damage.

The Luddites failed. The industrial revolution moderated by social evolution has been an amazing success in improving living conditions in the industrialized countries.

LLMs are not really intelligent. It is remarkable how effective LLMs are at absorbing various sources and re-assembling words to produce answers, without understanding what any of those words means. The answers they give are on the surface plausible, and tend to reflect main-stream consensus thinking, but humans with creativity and critical thinking skills can often challenge the facile answer to get LLMs to consider other factors, and create better answers. LLMs need human guidance and ingenuity to get the best out of them.

Think how the world has changed since the widespread introduction of computers in the 1980s, or the popularising of the internet in the late 1990s. Computers do the menial things for us, freeing us to do real brain work; with new technology humans have create new business opportunities, whole new industries. LLMs, over-egged as "AI" (like the web was over-egged in the dot com boom) will have a transformative effect, various job roles will disappear, but I'm guessing new roles will arise in managing and directing LLMs.

I don’t have one since I believe the economy, impacted by the use of automation of automation and AI, will only worsen. The government don’t care, they know the horse bolted years ago. In huge numbers, people will continue to go to university undeterred by the huge debts because what the hell else is there to do, and possibly those numbers will increase as jobs become more scarce and UBI comes in.

I would say the same, but I didn't pay fees and I got a grant to live off.

I'm not sure any of that is worth 60k plus.

Totally agree, there are now too many universities and they offer some utterly pointless courses but many young people want to go there 'for the experience' so they take a low tariff degree and then expect the world of work to welcome them with open, admiring arms! They are then saddled with a fairly useless degree and a ton of debt. For the money they are committing themselves to there a some good ways of having experiences while learning a skill, trade etc on the job and being paid.

I find the sneering at YP very funny, coming on a site that is probably second only to the Army in its use of abbreviations, acronyms etc!

OP, don't worry about using YP, people have been using DD, DH, DS, MN etc on here since forever. I also don't know anyone in real life who says "university", everyone says Uni.

(YP is also the abbreviation used on the facebook page that I am on (WIWIKAU)).

For DD, her choice to go Uni - it is because she wants to be an Actor. So she is studying Acting for Stage, Screen and Future Media. She can't get an apprenticeship in Acting.

I wish she wanted to learn a trade where she could do an apprenticeship, like chef, hairdresser, plumber, but she doesn't. She is also AuDHD and can't think of doing anything other than acting. Obviously she knows that it may not work out, but she could then use her degree for something else, like teaching.

We live in a very rural area, where there is no social life, and she has no friends in this area. She is thriving at University, making loads of friends with flatmates, on her course, societies and just randomly. She is applying for loads of jobs, she is going swimming, walking, exploring the city. She is absolutely loving it.

She doesn't get full loan due to my income, but I can't afford to make up the difference and her father offers nothing. She has £40 a week to live on after paying her halls, and I give her £30 a week for food and pay her mobile phone.

She understands that she will accumulate a large amount of debt and have to repay it when she earns enough. Clearly when she is a rich and famous actor, this won't be a problem

Yanbu

So many go to uni now that a degree doesn’t mean much.

Mine are high achievers so do/will go to uni but for those getting three Cs for example I don’t see the point unless heading for a career that needs a specific degree to enable entry.

They irritate me to be honest, and I think they fall in the realm of affectation, particularly the "D".

By the time you have typed DSis, you might have well have said sister. And what about Dsil - sister in law or son in law? Finally we have Ddog, which is longer than dog .

Agree, by the time you’ve capitalised DH you may as well have typed the word husband! I also find the ‘dear’ thing pretty cringe.

Because there are no alternatives to university any more - fewer apprenticeships, fewer jobs, fewer military training opportunities - but if they sit at home claiming benefits they are also vilified. They can’t win, can they?

This is MN - the home of abbreviations..

It is cringe - and often insincere (esp DMil!)

And for me I actually find punctuation and swapping to upper case more time-consuming when typing quickly, than just charging on in lower case with no punctuation which is why my posts often leave it out!

In some ways I think it’s the wrong question, because once students weren’t taking on huge debts for higher education so it wasn’t something to weigh up. Perhaps the question is just: why are we continuing to fund higher education in a way that leaves any young people in massive debt?

The follow up question to yours I guess is, how are we determining which young people it’s right for and which it isn’t then? Which ones should sit it out? There will be answers to this that don’t sound like they are limiting social mobility (about A level results, or limiting Uni to the Russell Group maybe) but you can guarantee the results would be exactly that.

I do agree that it’s not right for everyone though, that there are other routes to take, and I think this mainly comes in to play in cases where you have parents pushing ‘university at all costs’ even though it’s not right for their child or what they might choose for themselves.

In many cases they want graduates many if whom still have to be treated like 6th Formers because they lack the common sense and skills that no University teaches!

As an evil boomer I had many friends who didn't go to University or Teacher training and some have retired from senior roles, bank managers, computer analysts, civil servants, electricians, senior nurses for example where they started after A level, even after O level, and were trained on the job. They had no debts at 21/22 and were very comptent in their roles. I recall a friend complaining that they had taken on a graduate, wonderful degree but she, friend, was having to be her mentor as the graduate lacked knowledge of how to apply her degree in the workplace.

I went because it seemed to be the only choice given to be by my family ("You will do your A-Levels and a degree, and get a PROPER job" because what I wanted to do was not a 'proper' job") and my school and sixth form. My only concern was getting as far away from the control of my family as possible. I have since retrained in something completely different; my family now justify it because I get paid a whole £1 an hour more than people at work who don't have a degree. My brother has since said that he wished he hadn't given into the pressure to go, because he doesn't need a degree for his job, either.

DN has not been encouraged to go to university by her immediate family. However, she has started looking around various ones.

Sometimes it’s the easiest escape from small towns/attitudes and lack of opportunities! For some people it can be an opportunity to meet lots of different types of people and network.

I was the first in my family to go to university and it was one of the best moves I ever made. It unquestionably changed my life for the better. But significantly, I was an academic child, loved studying, didn’t feel strongly drawn to anything vocational, and it represented a possibility to earn enough to afford to buy my own home.

But neither of my own children chose to go. One started a business after A levels and the other left school at 16 for an apprenticeship. Both are thriving and in their sweet spot.

Some of the other parents were surprised that I didn’t push them to go, but it has to suit the individual, and now it is so expensive, it would take significant justification.